continuing growth in SWFL (Miami, Orlando: new house, schools, living in)

[Corrie22]

oh please, that would be like me moaning because we didn't used to even have a gas station....or a grocery store

Tri, when I move to Naples, I'm going to be fully retired....if it takes me half a day to go to the grocery....that's a good thing, gives me something to get fixed up and go do

You know, traffic is a state of mind...if I left here to the grocery (4 miles away), and expected to hurry back every time, I'd be crazy too....it can take over an hour to back home sometimes (4 miles)

...and no, moving back to the east coast is not an option for me...besides, I love Naples....

[Tripower455]

Originally Posted by Corrie22

oh please, that would be like me moaning because we didn't used to even have a gas station....or a grocery store

Tri, when I move to Naples, I'm going to be fully retired....if it takes me half a day to go to the grocery....that's a good thing, gives me something to get fixed up and go do

You know, traffic is a state of mind...if I left here to the grocery (4 miles away), and expected to hurry back every time, I'd be crazy too....it can take over an hour to back home sometimes (4 miles)

...and no, moving back to the east coast is not an option for me...besides, I love Naples....

None of that changes the fact that Naples is rapidly becoming like the east coast. If you have no problem with it, then good for you.

Oh, and I used to love Naples too. Now, not so much..........

[Corrie22]

..and by the time Naples becomes like the east coast now....the east coast won't be like it is now either!
The east coast is not going all of a sudden sit still

I had to leave here the other day and go downtown Miami...in morning traffic...it's ~80 miles....took me a little over 3 hours

Florida has not been like we remember Florida in decades....and I don't want to retire and move somewhere no one else wants to be.....there's a reason no one lives there

[Corrie22]

Originally Posted by JPrzybylski07

all the reasons people moved here in the first place will be eventually be ruined, .

People have been saying that about the Keys for over 60 years, that I know of...

Here's the way change works.....
Before we had a grocery store......everyone complained because we didn't have a grocery store
When Winn Dixie opened....everyone complained it's the end of the world
Now that they are used to Winn Dixie being here.....everyone freaked out because Office Depot down sized

[JPrzybylski07]

Originally Posted by Corrie22

People have been saying that about the Keys for over 60 years, that I know of...

Here's the way change works.....
Before we had a grocery store......everyone complained because we didn't have a grocery store
When Winn Dixie opened....everyone complained it's the end of the world
Now that they are used to Winn Dixie being here.....everyone freaked out because Office Depot down sized

Depends on how you look at things. Having a grocery store is good, not being able to see the stars at night because of all the light pollution from sources like the grocery store is bad.


I'm positive the FL Key's ecosystems were much healthier and vibrant 60 years ago then today.


Like I said just earlier, your norm is not the norm of people who came before you. Some people like Tripower may call modern day Naples a concrete jungle, while new people coming from big cities in the north will be blown away by all the trees and greenery never having known that this area once use to be apart of the actual Everglades teeming with wildlife.


Once again not to make things doom and gloom, but I rarely every hear or read someone say things are a lot better today then they use to be. It's always almost the opposite.


Humans and civilizations have a tendency to fall into what's called a progress trap. While in the process we think we are making things better we actually are making things worse but have gone too far to turn things around. Sure people are living longer and this is kinda getting off the micro topic of SWFL growth but I ask, are people happier today then they were 60 years ago? Honestly are they? Sure we have more conveniences and in many ways life is "easier" but does that translate to a happy society?


I was out hiking in the middle of Big Cypress National Preserve this past weekend, 4% moon only, and wow it was nice to actually see the Milky Way, it was like traveling back in time. It made me happy.


I pity the people that have to deal with 60+ minute daily commutes because we think we've made progress as a society by creating some pointless jobs to keep the consumerism machine running............

[Tripower455]

Originally Posted by Corrie22

..and by the time Naples becomes like the east coast now....the east coast won't be like it is now either!

The east coast is not going all of a sudden sit still

The east coast was more or less built out 25-30 years ago. Western expansion in Broward was stopped by the Everglades. I used to commute to Miami airport, and the only thing that's better now than it was back then is that the alley is a 4 lane. Once you get over there, it's exactly the same traffic as it was in 1988. I was just there on Tues. Same old BS.

It was not like that in Naples, but we're darn near there now.

I had to leave here the other day and go downtown Miami...in morning traffic...it's ~80 miles....took me a little over 3 hours

Wonderful..... That was one of the many reasons I moved to Naples when I was based in Miami.

It took my wife nearly 40 minutes to go 6.5 miles last week during morning rush hour here in Naples. No accidents or construction, just too many cars on too little road. It's the same thing in the afternoon going east. It takes 2-3 light changes to get through many of the intersections now. It was NEVER like this, and it's only getting worse.

Last week, I would've had to leave the house at around 0800 to get to work on time. To avoid the now normal morning traffic, I left the night before and stayed at a hotel for the first time in 17.5 years.

Florida has not been like we remember Florida in decades....and I don't want to retire and move somewhere no one else wants to be.....there's a reason no one lives there

Yup.... Naples was one of the last bastions that had a nice balance between amenities/infrastructure and population. Now it's got far too much of the latter, and too little of the former.

We had planned on retiring in this house.

I've still got 12 more years of work, so we are seriously looking at alternatives. My commute has never been easy, but the last few years have been downright brutal.

[Corrie22]

LOL..no it isn't.....30 years ago I was still going out and getting into trouble....I used to have I95 and the turnpike all to myself at 1 am
..You're not paying attention to south.....down to Florida City and Homestead

Don't matter...I'm moving to Naples...and I'm going to love every minute of it

I can go down to Chokoloskee and go fishing with an old friend of mine that moved from the Keys, I can go plant and orchid shopping, go to really nice places and hang out safe and clean, take day trips to tons of places....get back to enjoying the time I have..
..and if I want some rare plant, I can do Homestead/Redlands in a day trip easy...need to go to Miami?....easy day trip

AND no matter how old and crotchety I get......appreciate that I'm living and enjoying a place where almost every person would kill to be able to live

[JPrzybylski07]

Just read a good article about human progress traps. The first one being when we invented spears, and bow and arrows for hunting.




"The technical progress in weaponry first produced an era of prosperity and plenty. Then it crashed as the big game were driven to extinction. Wright calls this the first progress trap. Human population swelled from the kills, more people meant more hunters, more hunters meant less game. Over time the spear points become smaller and smaller, as people hunted rabbits instead of mammoths.
Humanity was saved by the next wave of progress, the invention of agriculture, 10,000 to 13,000 years ago This seems a long, long time, but in terms of the timeline of anatomically modern humans, which date from 195,000 years ago, it’s a brief moment."


And to quote a good quote from that article.


“For all its cruelties, civilization is precious, an experiment worth continuing. It is also precarious: as we climbed the ladder of progress, we kicked out the rungs below. There is no going back without catastrophe. Those who don’t like civilization, and can’t wait for it to fall on its arrogant face, should keep in mind that there is no other way to support humanity in anything like our present numbers or estate.”

[Corrie22]

...right out of the Paul Ehrlich play book

We're all going to die..at 10...film at 11

[Tripower455]

Originally Posted by JPrzybylski07

Depends on how you look at things. Having a grocery store is good, not being able to see the stars at night because of all the light pollution from sources like the grocery store is bad.


I'm positive the FL Key's ecosystems were much healthier and vibrant 60 years ago then today.


Like I said just earlier, your norm is not the norm of people who came before you. Some people like Tripower may call modern day Naples a concrete jungle, while new people coming from big cities in the north will be blown away by all the trees and greenery never having known that this area once use to be apart of the actual Everglades teeming with wildlife.


Once again not to make things doom and gloom, but I rarely every hear or read someone say things are a lot better today then they use to be. It's always almost the opposite.


Humans and civilizations have a tendency to fall into what's called a progress trap. While in the process we think we are making things better we actually are making things worse but have gone too far to turn things around. Sure people are living longer and this is kinda getting off the micro topic of SWFL growth but I ask, are people happier today then they were 60 years ago? Honestly are they? Sure we have more conveniences and in many ways life is "easier" but does that translate to a happy society?


I was out hiking in the middle of Big Cypress National Preserve this past weekend, 4% moon only, and wow it was nice to actually see the Milky Way, it was like traveling back in time. It made me happy.


I pity the people that have to deal with 60+ minute daily commutes because we think we've made progress as a society by creating some pointless jobs to keep the consumerism machine running............

Well said.

Comparing Naples to the Keys is apples and oranges. The Keys have a very finite amount of buildable land, most of which was built on many years ago. In my lifetime, a drive down the Keys has been an all day affair, as it is today.


FWIW, I'd KILL for a 60 minute commute, but I don't do it daily...... ;-)