Am I crazy to uproot my family from Chicago & move to Nashville? (Murfreesboro: apartment complexes, condos)

[MantaRay]

I grew up in Nashville, but have tons of family in Chicago as well, whom I've visited from time to time. I like Nashville MUCH better. On weather, it doesn't get nearly as cold (and windy) as Chicago in the winter, and Chicago gets just as hot and sometimes hotter than Nashville in the summer. On cost of living, there's no comparison- Nashville is much cheaper. And you don't have to miss out on outdoor recreation for that cheaper cost. They've built two pedestrian bridges across the Cumberland for folks to bike (or walk) across, and greenways connected to them. You've got the lake recreation as well. You've got the symphony at Schemmerhorn or Titans football games. You've got the July 4th festivities on the riverfront. Really for the cheaper cost of living, you're not losing out on a whole lot over Chicago. Sure Chicago has greater quantities of things- restaurants, etc. but you can get good steak in Nashville if you want good steak, you can get good fish in Nashville if you want good fish, etc. The traffic isn't nearly as bad as Chicago.

I have family who has grown up in Chicago who are young adults and they want to move away from Chicago and to the south (or have already) because they don't like the Chicago environment for raising their kids. I have other family who grew up in Tennessee and moved to Chicago in early adulthood and retired from Chicago that have moved to Tennessee and are happy with having done so- it seems to be that without fail the widowed retirees in my family want to move back but the still married retirees want to stay in Chi. I always have a great time when I go to Chicago, and Chicago is a really fun city with a whole lot of amenities. But when it comes right down to it, I think if you're past the 20s and single phase, and especially if you're raising a family, Nashville is highly preferable to Chicago.

[MantaRay]

Having grown up in Nashville, I've always heard people rave over Brentwood and Franklin, even way back when both were barely past podunk. And while they are nice places, Mt. Juliet is now my favorite Nashville suburb and I think Mt. Juliet is positioning itself to be the best suburban community in middle Tennessee. I recently visited the Providence Marketplace and toured the residential development (neighborhoods) adjacent to it. And I'm hard pressed to think of very many other residential developments in metro Nashville that tie the residential to the retail/commercial so well, especially in the context of the pedestrian, with interconnecting sidewalks/trails. And Mt. Juliet's comprehensive plan includes not only building out its downtown area similar to Franklin's downtown area, but providing pedestrian trails connecting it to the Providence area as well as stretching towards the direction of Nashville. In other words, Mt. Juliet is trying to build a network of trails which runs throughout the entirety of Mt. Juliet and connects every part of Mt. Juliet to every other part of Mt. Juliet and therefore by default connects residential to retail for the pedestrian.

That and its proximity to Percy Priest Lake (Percy Priest Dam recreational areas as well as Long Hunter State Park area) and really Old Hickory Lake too will make Mt. Juliet THE suburban outdoor recreational mecca in middle Tennesee (not to diminish Nashville's Warner Parks and greenway/trails development). And the commute to downtown Nashville is better too, whether you consider traffic, distance, or public transportation (Metro Star) aspects.

So while Brentwood and Franklin are nice places, I think Mt. Juliet tends to get overlooked when it looks poised to outshine all Nashville suburbs in terms of overall quality of life.

[pastybap]

MantaRay!

Believe it or not - I am uprooting my family from New York and moving to Mt. Juliet this summer - We loved and are really excited to see other people do as well!

[TNRyan23]

Originally Posted by MantaRay

I think Mt. Juliet is positioning itself to be the best suburban community in middle Tennessee. I recently visited the Providence Marketplace and toured the residential development (neighborhoods) adjacent to it. And I'm hard pressed to think of very many other residential developments in metro Nashville that tie the residential to the retail/commercial so well

Hendersonville has Mt. Juliet beat 100%

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Hendersonville has Mt. Juliet beat 100%

What does Hendersonville have that is comparable to Providence? Not only is there the actual retail establishments in Providence, but the neighborhoods are linked to the retail as well as to park space within the development with pedestrian walking trails. What does Hendersonville offer for the "pedestrian town center" experience?

Furthermore, for somebody like myself looking at Mt. Juliet as a place to retire to, I see that the Metro Star runs from there to downtown Nashville. That means that if I want to go down to the riverfront during the day or go bike over the pedestrian bridges and Shelby Bottoms, I can (assuming the service is still in place at that time), just hop the train downtown. I won't have to worry about driving and parking if I don't want to. Chalk another aspect up to pro-pedestrian experience.

On top of that, when I look at Mt. Juliet's development plan, they have pedestrian trails planned connecting all parts of Mt. Juliet. That means I will be able to take my bike and bike miles of trails in the community.

One other thing which I find exciting (may not be for everybody) is that Providence offers various styles of housing, even the rear garage entry type that is prominent in most TND developments, with the front porches and sidewalks and pocket parks.

So, what does Hendersonville offer somebody seeking real quality of life in a neighborhood- meaning a pedestrian orientation built on a town center concept with neighborhood parks and walkability to retail and access to public transit to downtown Nashville? You know, as opposed to the typical sprawl model where homes are way over here and retail is way over there and the parks are way over there and you've got to use your car to get to each or risk being mowed down while trying to walk or ride your bike to grab a latte? What does Hendersonville have that compares to Mt. Juliet in that regard or is planning that compares to what Mt. Juliet is planning in that regard? Are you sure you want to stick with Hendersonville having Mt. Juliet beat 100%?

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by pastybap

MantaRay!

Believe it or not - I am uprooting my family from New York and moving to Mt. Juliet this summer - We loved and are really excited to see other people do as well!

Awesome! Hope all goes well with the move and you have the time of your lives in Mt. Juliet!

[TNRyan23]

Originally Posted by MantaRay

What does Hendersonville have that is comparable to Providence? Not only is there the actual retail establishments in Providence, but the neighborhoods are linked to the retail as well as to park space within the development with pedestrian walking trails. What does Hendersonville offer for the "pedestrian town center" experience?

Well, Lets see (I lived in Mt. Juliet in 2006 in the apartment complex on Belinda Pkwy.) The shopps on Indian Lake is very similar to Providence, same kinds of stores and much like Providence, They are still building up and developing the area. They are putting in a mega amount of houses and apartments in the area and there is word of them putting in a real mall. The Hendersonville Greenway is just about complete from what I understand and IIRC, It goes from Old Hickory Lake all the way down to the Beech High School area. Yes, There are tons of new sidewalks and the whole area is starting to become very pedestrian.

Originally Posted by MantaRay

Furthermore, for somebody like myself looking at Mt. Juliet as a place to retire to, I see that the Metro Star runs from there to downtown Nashville. That means that if I want to go down to the riverfront during the day or go bike over the pedestrian bridges and Shelby Bottoms, I can (assuming the service is still in place at that time), just hop the train downtown. I won't have to worry about driving and parking if I don't want to. Chalk another aspect up to pro-pedestrian experience.

Hardly no one rides the Metro Star so I doubt it'll be in place for much longer, Atleast not all the way to Mt. Juliet/Lebanon. I'll give you the fact that Mt. Juliet has the Metro Star but seriously, at a rate of $41 a month (via their website which I'll assume is a discount for buying it monthly) Wouldn't it be cheaper to just drive ? Unless you plan to go downtown every single day. Pro-Pedestrian ? This is Nashville, land of no sidewalks.

Originally Posted by MantaRay

On top of that, when I look at Mt. Juliet's development plan, they have pedestrian trails planned connecting all parts of Mt. Juliet. That means I will be able to take my bike and bike miles of trails in the community.

Hendersonville has that in the plans as well...

Originally Posted by MantaRay

One other thing which I find exciting (may not be for everybody) is that Providence offers various styles of housing, even the rear garage entry type that is prominent in most TND developments, with the front porches and sidewalks and pocket parks.

Hendersonville also has those going up in the areas near the new development at Indian Lakes.

Originally Posted by MantaRay

So, what does Hendersonville offer somebody seeking real quality of life in a neighborhood- meaning a pedestrian orientation built on a town center concept with neighborhood parks and walkability to retail and access to public transit to downtown Nashville? You know, as opposed to the typical sprawl model where homes are way over here and retail is way over there and the parks are way over there and you've got to use your car to get to each or risk being mowed down while trying to walk or ride your bike to grab a latte? What does Hendersonville have that compares to Mt. Juliet in that regard or is planning that compares to what Mt. Juliet is planning in that regard? Are you sure you want to stick with Hendersonville having Mt. Juliet beat 100%?

Hendersonville has been known as one of Nashville's best suburbs for a very long time which is the reason people like Johnny Cash, June Carter Cash,The Oak Ridge Boys, Young Buck, Roy Orbison, Luther Perkins, Marty Stuart, Conway Twitty, and Golden Tate (among others) call or have called Hendersonville home.

Hendersonville has all the shopping (Like Mt. Juliet) Target, Wal-mart, a couple Krogers, Home Depot, Lowes, and all the other typical b.s. I'll give Mt. Juliet the fact that they have Best Buy but the big car lot in providence kinda takes away from it.

Hendersonville has tons of nice parks and ALOT of variety for water recreation as it's surrounded by Old Hickory Lake. The parks in Hendersonville are awesome man, I can think of atleast 5, nice sized parks with alot of activities, trees, lakes, rivers, ect, ect just within a few miles of each other inbetween the Saundersferry/Waltonferry roads.

Also, There is no crime here. One of the biggest reasons I personally left Mt. Juliet was due to drunks constantly urinating in our shrubs outside of our apartment and the Police were constantly in that apartment complex.

Props for the new Walmart and Lowes though..

Also, There are 59 schools in Mt. Juliet with a great schools rating of 8-10 for Mt. Juliet schools..

Mount Juliet Schools - Mount Juliet Tennessee School Ratings - Public and Private

There are 97 schools in Hendersonville with a great schools rating of 9-10.

Hendersonville Schools - Hendersonville Tennessee School Ratings - Public and Private

Not that you'd care about the schools but hey, If you're retired.. These are the kids that will be running your city.

[vivelafrance]

I consider Mt Juliet a smaller version of Hendersonville but also think Hendersonville has Mt Juliet beat 100%.

Mt. Juliet's Providence is just another big box/lifestyle center like Indian Lake and Glenbrook in Hendersonville. In Fact, Indian Lake really has better shopping options than Providence. (Talbot's, Francesca's, Carlyle and Co, Eddie Bauer, The French Shoppe, etc.)

Mt. Juliet doesn't have quality local and upscale restaurants like September's and Cafe Rakka in Hendersonville.

Mt. Juliet doesn't have as good of a public parks system and doesn't utilize the lake front access like Hendersonville.

Mt. Juliet does not boast an excellent private school system to go along with the public system. PJP II High School in Hendersonville is among the best in the nation according to some surveys


As for more pedestrian-centered neighborhoods....that seems to be all the rage in the new development here. Mansker Farms, one of the largest subdivisions in the city has planned a small town center so that residents can walk/bike to local services and do grocery shopping without a long car trip. Kennesaw Farms, located between Hendersonville and Gallatin is planned to have rear-facing garages and a small town layout and feel. Hendersonville is connecting all major areas via greenways and pedestrian/bike trails. Hendersonville also has a very ambitious plan to completely remake the center of the city in order to create a "downtown/town square" type atmosphere that the city lacks from having incorporated so recently ion the era of sprawl. The Tennessean had an article today saying that Hendersonville and Gallatin are being considered for a new rail line to Nashville.
I think Mt. Juliet is where Hendersonville was 10 years ago...and that seems about right considering it is a much smaller city. It will certainly change for the better with time.

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Well, Lets see (I lived in Mt. Juliet in 2006 in the apartment complex on Belinda Pkwy.) The shopps on Indian Lake is very similar to Providence, same kinds of stores and much like Providence, They are still building up and developing the area. They are putting in a mega amount of houses and apartments in the area and there is word of them putting in a real mall.

I've seen the Indian Lake development. I haven't seen where those "mega amount of houses and apartments in the area" are going to have pedestrian-friendly connections to the site. It's nice and all, but it doesn't incorporate the surrounding residential neighborhoods the way Providence does.

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

The Hendersonville Greenway is just about complete from what I understand and IIRC, It goes from Old Hickory Lake all the way down to the Beech High School area. Yes, There are tons of new sidewalks and the whole area is starting to become very pedestrian.

Great. Hendersonville is doing what Mt. Juliet has been doing.

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Hardly no one rides the Metro Star so I doubt it'll be in place for much longer, Atleast not all the way to Mt. Juliet/Lebanon. I'll give you the fact that Mt. Juliet has the Metro Star but seriously, at a rate of $41 a month (via their website which I'll assume is a discount for buying it monthly) Wouldn't it be cheaper to just drive ? Unless you plan to go downtown every single day. Pro-Pedestrian ? This is Nashville, land of no sidewalks.

I was just on the riverfront in downtown Nashville a couple weekends ago. I saw plenty of sidewalks. I also saw this big pedestrian bridge stretching across the Cumberland River that was formerly the Shelby Street bridge. And from Germantown down through Bicentennial Mall down to the riverfront, guess what- sidewalks. Seems like I heard something about a Shelby Bottoms Park and pedestrian bridge at Two Rivers. Once Mt. Juliet gets its greenway system built out, it will be for me a matter of walking out of the front door of my Providence home, biking the greenway to the Metro Star station on Division St., taking the Star downtown, and biking wherever else I want to from there- with all the sidewalks and pedestrian bridges. That sounds pretty pro-pedestrian to me.

As far as the Metro Star, we'll just have to see what becomes of it. I say as the Nashville metro area grows, it will generate more ridership. I used to drive to downtown Nashville every day years ago and pay for parking, and even all those years ago it cost me more than $41 a month in gas and parking to do that. And that's not even considering the cost of maintenance on a vehicle due to the miles driven back and forth to downtown. So when all the costs are considered, no, I don't think it would be cheaper to just drive. And unless gas prices stay where they are and never go up any more, I don't really see that changing.

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Hendersonville has all the shopping (Like Mt. Juliet) Target, Wal-mart, a couple Krogers, Home Depot, Lowes, and all the other typical b.s. I'll give Mt. Juliet the fact that they have Best Buy but the big car lot in providence kinda takes away from it.

Providence is the best new shopping area in the entire metro, with the exception of The Avenue in Murfreesboro.

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Hendersonville has tons of nice parks and ALOT of variety for water recreation as it's surrounded by Old Hickory Lake. The parks in Hendersonville are awesome man, I can think of atleast 5, nice sized parks with alot of activities, trees, lakes, rivers, ect, ect just within a few miles of each other inbetween the Saundersferry/Waltonferry roads.

Great, then it's a lot like the Mt. Juliet vicinity with Percy Priest Lake and parks like Long Hunter State Park and Hermitage Public Use Area, each of which has hiking/bike trails/greenways in its vicinity- one inside Long Hunter, and the Stones River Greenway from the Dam. Now that I mention it, once Nashville gets its greenways completed out, it will be possible to take the Stones River Greenway and bike all the way to downtown Nashville. And if Nashville does eventually complete it's "island" concept with new riverwalk, etc. then all the more reason to bike downtown.

Originally Posted by TNRyan23

Also, There are 59 schools in Mt. Juliet with a great schools rating of 8-10 for Mt. Juliet schools..

Mount Juliet Schools - Mount Juliet Tennessee School Ratings - Public and Private

There are 97 schools in Hendersonville with a great schools rating of 9-10.

Hendersonville Schools - Hendersonville Tennessee School Ratings - Public and Private

Not that you'd care about the schools but hey, If you're retired.. These are the kids that will be running your city.

I don't buy into the whole "best schools" thing anyway. I did a comprehensive write-up on these boards before about why the concept is misleading, but I'll summarize here for the sake of time. The "best schools concept" is built on aggregate standardized test scores, which 1) on the one hand have been PROVEN (as in with evidence) not to be reliable predictors of collegiate success (they are just political tools for schools to give themselves a report card), and 2) only reflect the percentage of students with actively involved parents. If two schools have 100 students and one has 80 with actively involved parents and the other has 95, the school with 95 is going to have higher average test scores and be deemed "better" than the one with 80. But those 80 students perform on standardized tests just as well as the 95- the 95 don't really have an advantage by going to that school, the 80 have just as good a shot at getting into good universities because they scored just as well as the 95. It has nothing to do with the school building or the teachers or the principal. And again those scores don't equate to collegiate success anyway. Parental involvement DOES, and the same student with the same parents has that whether he goes to the school with the 80 or with the 95 students with actively involved parents. And collegiate success is the whole point of the secondary schools process anyway, and those 80 have the same shot as the 95. Any of those kids will be ok running the city in the future.

So based on the data and the reality, I don't put a whole lot of stock in the "School X is better than School Y because of higher standardized test scores" nonsense. I would be even less compelled to once I'm retired. Both areas have schools wherein students can do equally as well scholastically and in getting accepted into good universities if they have actively involved parents.

Having said all that, I can see where Hendersonville is similar to Mt. Juliet. But the idea that Hendersonville is 100% better than Mt. Juliet is pretty out there. I stand a better chance of being able to walk from my home to the store and to retail in Providence, and I'll stand a better chance of being able to walk out of my front door with my bike and get to downtown Nashville from Mt. Juliet, whether that's biking to the Metro Star and taking it downtown or biking the back roads to the Stones River Greenway and then biking downtown from there. That's pedestrian quality of life in my book. That's not Hendersonville being 100% better than Mt. Juliet.

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by vivelafrance

Mt. Juliet's Providence is just another big box/lifestyle center like Indian Lake and Glenbrook in Hendersonville. In Fact, Indian Lake really has better shopping options than Providence. (Talbot's, Francesca's, Carlyle and Co, Eddie Bauer, The French Shoppe, etc.)

Lifestyle center, especially when connected with lots of homes nearby via sidewalks and trails = quality of life. Stapleton in Denver is the nation's largest example of this concept. "Just another" underestimates the pedestrian quality of life element.

Originally Posted by vivelafrance

Mt. Juliet doesn't have as good of a public parks system and doesn't utilize the lake front access like Hendersonville.

Long Hunter State Park is within 5 miles of Providence and has good lake front access as well as hiking/bike trails. Hermitage Public Use Area/Percy Priest Dam is within 6 miles of Providence and has good lake front access as well as the Stones River Greenway, which is part of a larger Nashville greenway system which is planned to connect that location to downtown Nashville, the system already being most of the way completed. All that within 5-6 miles of Providence. Not to mention Seven Points and Cook. That's EXCELLENT public parks and greenway access in my book.

Originally Posted by vivelafrance

Mt. Juliet does not boast an excellent private school system to go along with the public system. PJP II High School in Hendersonville is among the best in the nation according to some surveys

Refer to my summarization of the misleading nature of standardized test scores as a measure of "school greatness." It's all about the parents of the student. The same student and parent in PJP II can get the same SAT score in a public high school and can therefore get into the same colleges and universities based on SAT scores and GPA and extracurricular activities. The whole "best schools" thing is a political tool used by schools as a (false) measure of the staff and facilities and a marketing tool used by real estate agents and communities to sell homes. Nothing wrong with using what you can use to market, but just like an intelligent person knows that $29.99 is really $30, an intelligent person knows that a few points difference in average standardized test scores does not really equal better teaching staff and facilities.

Originally Posted by vivelafrance

As for more pedestrian-centered neighborhoods....that seems to be all the rage in the new development here. Mansker Farms, one of the largest subdivisions in the city has planned a small town center so that residents can walk/bike to local services and do grocery shopping without a long car trip. Kennesaw Farms, located between Hendersonville and Gallatin is planned to have rear-facing garages and a small town layout and feel. Hendersonville is connecting all major areas via greenways and pedestrian/bike trails. Hendersonville also has a very ambitious plan to completely remake the center of the city in order to create a "downtown/town square" type atmosphere that the city lacks from having incorporated so recently ion the era of sprawl.

Then Hendersonville is doing the same things Mt. Juliet is doing. I still think the proximity to the Stones River Greenway and by extension to downtown Nashville via bike trails is a HUGE pedestrian quality of life advantage. And if Nashville ever does complete it's downtown island + new riverwalk concept, then all the moreso. Mt. Juliet has the benefit of not having been built up during the sprawl era, so that it is now building itself in the era of smart growth mindset, with plans for its downtown/town square reflecting that mindset. It is more making itself into that than remaking itself into that. It's getting it right the first time. And it has plenty of open land to continue building itself on that model.