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I lived in an upper class neighborhood in Chicago where the population was less then 3% Black and had many issues with confrontational type racism. Not acceptable! I moved when my lease was up.
Diversity is important is an understatement especially when it comes to middle class Black. No one wants to live in a hostile environment. Many people think one can earn their way out of racism when you can't. Just because an area is high income or is well educated, doesn't mean people don't have stupid race based prejudices. That goes for any place.
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Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis
Many of the upscale suburbs like Brentwood are 90% one race and 3% Black. There are probably no barber shops and Many times more difficult to find haircare products. If you are a Black family with children, you may want to have some association with people they can relate to with similar life experience. As a single person, the same thing applies with having others to relate to is important. Who wants to get strange looks and answer stupid questions about how they can afford to live where they live.
I have many negative experiences living in places where I was not wanted. It isnt healthy for kids. It is no fun being in a environment that has the potential to be bad especially given the current racial climate nationwide.
It breaks my heart that you had to deal with that. I appreciate your reply, and as a white person, I can't even begin to understand that kind of hassle I'm sorry people have been so cruel, but thank you for posting your experience and helping me understand. I guess it's easy for me to act like it's no big deal, but your post has enlightened me otherwise.
It breaks my heart that you had to deal with that. I appreciate your reply, and as a white person, I can't even begin to understand that kind of hassle I'm sorry people have been so cruel, but thank you for posting your experience and helping me understand. I guess it's easy for me to act like it's no big deal, but your post has enlightened me otherwise.
No need to apologize imo. I look at people as an individual. No one can be held accountable for a mistake of others just because they are the same race. If you don't know you dont know.
There is nothing wrong with having personal diversity standards. Wanting to live in a community with no real dominant race has never hurt anyone and I think its actually healthy for people of different races to see and accept other successful people who look different. Otoh, nothing is worse then not having peace of mind in a community that you buy into or not having the amenities you should enjoy in a comfortable environment.
As a person of color and in a long-term, interracial marriage, I'm frequently perplexed by questions such as yours. Why would anyone want to segregate themselves from others in this day and age? I have black and white (as well as other) friends who live in upper middle class neighborhoods such as Franklin and Brentwood. They don't isolate themselves but live among those of their class (i.e. possibly similar income earners) but not of a certain race.
While it's true that both those neighborhoods are primarily white, no one else is excluded from living there. Shouldn't our goal be assimilation and flourishing among people of all races? Why should blacks only live among blacks? Will the next step be to keep others out of upper middle class black neighborhoods? What if whites started doing that again? Why would anyone want to return to those days when we lived according to our race? I'd much rather live among others in my income class, or among people with shared visions, and a common goal of bettering our neighborhood, our county, state, and our lives in general.
While the ideal situation would be for everyone to live fully integrated lives the truth is that's not the reality in most cases. We live in a country that though isn't legally segregated social/racial segregation still exits. Take a look at Belle Meade, Brentwood and Franklin for examples. Some would say, it's more about class but if we're honest, there's still a tinge of racism involved as well. I honestly can't count how many times I've been questioned by locals about how I can afford to live where I live or the type of car that I drive, as if blacks can't and aren't supposed to be able to afford to live in certain areas. I believe this is due to racial stereotypes and perceptions perpetuated by the media. I also believe it's because each group more or less looks out for their own best interests, which I don't see any issues with that to a degree. I just find it odd that, when other groups(whites, Hispanics, Asians, Arabs etc) do this no one questions it but when blacks say, "I'd rather live and build with my own" it becomes an issue of self proclaimed segregation. Just a thought to ponder.
Last edited by jkc2j; 06-13-2017 at 11:50 PM..
Reason: edit
...... I just find it odd that, when other groups(whites, Hispanics, Asians, Arabs etc) do this no one questions it but when blacks say, "I'd rather live and build with my own" it becomes an issue of self proclaimed segregation. Just a thought to ponder.
Thank you for sharing. My response would be the same to all those groups you mentioned. Assimilating applies to everyone, no matter what race, religion, ethnicity or national origin one is. As we live among people of various races, ethnicities, etc. we all learn about each other, and we all learn to get along, and work together. If we isolate ourselves, or only live among those who are like us, how can we then wonder why someone else doesn't understand us, our culture, or belief systems? This doesn't apply to any one group of people, but to all of us.
While the ideal situation would be for everyone to live fully integrated lives the truth is that's not the reality in most cases. We live in a country that though isn't legally segregated social/racial segregation still exits. Take a look at Belle Meade, Brentwood and Franklin for examples. Some would say, it's more about class but if we're honest, there's still a tinge of racism involved as well. I honestly can't count how many times I've been questioned by locals about how I can afford to live where I live or the type of car that I drive, as if blacks can't and aren't supposed to be able to afford to live in certain areas. I believe this is due to racial stereotypes and perceptions perpetuated by the media. I also believe it's because each group more or less looks out for their own best interests, which I don't see any issues with that to a degree. I just find it odd that, when other groups(whites, Hispanics, Asians, Arabs etc) do this no one questions it but when blacks say, "I'd rather live and build with my own" it becomes an issue of self proclaimed segregation. Just a thought to ponder.
while i understand that racism will always exist....
but i would honestly question anyone who lives in Belle Meade, Brentwood, or Franklin. Those are some of the most expensive parts in town, and if someone told me they lived there....hell, i would question it--regardless of their race. Are people not allowed to ask general questions? Are the people questioning you, actually live in those areas???
the parts of town with heavier populations of other minorities, did not become because of their choosing. They are in the lowest income areas. They came as immigrants, refugees, etc...but as soon as their families get better jobs, they move into other areas of nashville and are welcomed. Tell me where in nashville where there's a "upper class minority area." All the folks who own shops on nolensville rd (the internationa 5 mile)...dont live there. Why? Because wealthy people live among other weathly people. This is nashville, everyone minds their own business and gets along.
while i understand that racism will always exist....
but i would honestly question anyone who lives in Belle Meade, Brentwood, or Franklin. Those are some of the most expensive parts in town, and if someone told me they lived there....hell, i would question it--regardless of their race. Are people not allowed to ask general questions? Are the people questioning you, actually live in those areas???
the parts of town with heavier populations of other minorities, did not become because of their choosing. They are in the lowest income areas. They came as immigrants, refugees, etc...but as soon as their families get better jobs, they move into other areas of nashville and are welcomed. Tell me where in nashville where there's a "upper class minority area." All the folks who own shops on nolensville rd (the internationa 5 mile)...dont live there. Why? Because wealthy people live among other weathly people. This is nashville, everyone minds their own business and gets along.
I see your point, it'd be more understandable if these were a few isolated incidents but unfortunately their not. I've received questions not just about what I do for a living but personal questions about my family as well, which I didn't even know who these people were(I honestly don't think it'd be reciprocal if the roles were reversed). Again, I've never said that people can't or don't have the ability to live where they want. What I did say is that most areas that are wealthy(not just in Nashville) that are majority white, there tends to be more of an air of 'race awareness' when someone moves into the neighborhood who's not white.
Of course, though Nashville doesn't have a majority black wealthy area(unless you count Antioch) there are cities that do. Atlanta and DC come to mind, which have numerous areas for wealthy blacks. Why wealthy blacks in Nashville haven't followed those cities model can be due to a variety of different reasons but is an interesting topic. Like I mentioned, just because a black person has the ability to move to these majority white wealthy areas, doesn't necessarily mean they'll be welcomed.
I am honestly curious why Black culture is not more prominent in Nashville? There are 4 Historically black colleges and universities in Nashville-which is the most outside of Atlanta. The city's signature dish is Nashville hot chicken, which came out of Nashville's black community. The origin of the city's nickname, "Music City", originates in the 1800s when the Fisk (HBCU) jubilee singers performed for an English Queen. She proclaimed that the singers must have come from a "Musical City".
Yet, there is no prominent upper class or even middle class black neighborhood. How can you have 4 colleges/universities and not a single strong economically viable neighborhood? Bordeaux and Trinity Hills are the closest Nashville has and they are sorely lacking in amenities. Almost every black neighborhood is gentrifying. I guess Antioch is the closest thing Nashville has to a middle class black neighborhood but its only 38.1 % black. The hip hop artist to achieve national success was Young Buck over a decade ago.
On top of al of it, Meharry Medical is a medical school. There was never a better way to escape poverty.
I can't say Nashville doesn't have black Culture, its way too may blacks there for it not to be black cultured, just not on that overly done level many of those want to be black meccas are, which IMO isn't always a good thing. I have always said too much of Something is never a good thing. To be honest, I don't think people are looking that deep about it and that's one of the things I loved so much about Nashville was the diversity factor and people are scattered about which is more healthy. When living in a neighbor hood I prefer having Diversity, not just living in an all black or white neighborhoods but a nice healthy mix. Looks as though the Black Celebs, whether Gospel or R&B are adding there flavor of black Culture to Music City.
Also as a side note, I think Nashville always catches it hard when it comes down to the above topic and not being a black Mecca and being a Large and growing Metropolis. Why is it Miami never gets the same flack and it will never be a black Mecca and I'm sure there are very few Upper class black neighborhoods. Cubans run Miami and blacks don't say or complain that much about it.. Well that may not be true but they accept it, still live there and still visit. Only about 20% of the Population in Miami are black vs. almost 30% black in Nashville.. I know these are two totally different dynamics but I just thought I would throw that out there...
Also as a side note, I think Nashville always catches it hard when it comes down to the above topic and not being a black Mecca and being a Large and growing Metropolis. Why is it Miami never gets the same flack and it will never be a black Mecca and I'm sure there are very few Upper class black neighborhoods. Cubans run Miami and blacks don't say or complain that much about it.. Well that may not be true but they accept it, still live there and still visit. Only about 20% of the Population in Miami are black vs. almost 30% black in Nashville.. I know these are two totally different dynamics but I just thought I would throw that out there...
I honestly can't say for sure but being a Nashville native who was born and raised here(moved and came back) it's always had to potential to be a so called "black mecca". I think what throws some black people off who visit is that they see all of the HBCU's, black people driving nice cars and having nice homes and don't understand why they're aren't a plethora of black upper class neighborhoods. I grew up in the White's Creek/Bellshire area, which was mostly black and had a mixture of incomes and occupations. Doctors, lawyers, electricians etc.
My theory is that the dynamics are a bit different between each city. Atlanta and DC have always had very large black populations, then you add in the HBCU's there's always a constant funnel of educated blacks in and out of those cities, while Nashville, though having a large black population isn't majority black(post consolidation) which means, there are not as many options to choose for wealthy blacks when looking to move amongst others like them. However, I will say, Nashville has done a pretty good job with integrating the middle class, which is pretty diverse for a city it's size.
I also believe there's a perception issue as well. The idea that Nashville is nothing but country music which was a stereotype for a long time(though things have changed) which kept a lot of blacks from even visiting(though once they visit, they see it's more than that). A city like Miami(which I believe has one HBCU) doen't have the black history that many other southern cities have, which is why it doesn't "catch a lot of flack" because I don't believe blacks visit or move there for that.
Nashville has done a great job of rebranding itself to millennials to a degree but if the city wants to attract and retain more educated blacks, it'll need to do a better job than just marketing country music and craft beers.
Nashville doesn't have a large thriving black class because it chose not to. There was a great investigative piece that the Nashville Scene ran YEARS ago about choices that were made by a rather insular group on influencers years ago, before the growth rate between Atlanta, Charlotte and other cities, and Nashville, wasn't so vast. Also, as the above poster said, the image and branding does NOT help welcome anyone who is not Caucasian with a predictable list of interests and affinities. As a native who no longer lives there, when I return, the racial climate is wholly different than in Atlanta. You cannot exist in Metro Atlanta and not see other black and brown people, no matter the economic profile of the side of town or neighborhood. The same still cannot be said about Nashville, where whites still stare at you in places like Belle Meade, Brentwood and some parts of Bellevue closer to the Franklin line. I think we are providing our children with a much more balanced and inclusive childhood by having left!
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I'm sorry people have been so cruel, but thank you for posting your experience and helping me understand. I guess it's easy for me to act like it's no big deal, but your post has enlightened me otherwise.
