If Nashville had developed a light or heavy rail system... (Murfreesboro: fit in, condo)

[ariesjow]

^ I agree that fixing the bus system and making BRT work is of the utmost importance before other forms of transit could be considered. Personally, I would love a trolley system looping around downtown and midtown around Centennial Park. Something like that would be heavily-utilized by visitors and residents alike and, if implemented properly could really help some of the progress around West End Avenue spill over to Church Street and Charlotte Pike which are criminally underutilized arteries with great potential for being a 24 hour urban neighborhood.

It seems that Purcell tried to place more sidewalks but I've noticed that sidewalks were placed in random spots and end abruptly. There's little connectivity. For instance, sidewalks were poured around Vaught Middle School in my neighborhood (White Bridge) fairly recently but Metro did not even complete the entire street. They instead poured half of one side and only connected a single side street to White Bridge Road via the new sidewalks. On the other hand, Metro felt the need to place new sidewalks throughout the entire stretch of a random, cul-de-sac by Vaught Middle School that has maybe ten homes on it.

[shinestx]

Originally Posted by ariesjow

^ I agree that fixing the bus system and making BRT work is of the utmost importance before other forms of transit could be considered. Personally, I would love a trolley system looping around downtown and midtown around Centennial Park. Something like that would be heavily-utilized by visitors and residents alike and, if implemented properly could really help some of the progress around West End Avenue spill over to Church Street and Charlotte Pike which are criminally underutilized arteries with great potential for being a 24 hour urban neighborhood.

It seems that Purcell tried to place more sidewalks but I've noticed that sidewalks were placed in random spots and end abruptly. There's little connectivity. For instance, sidewalks were poured around Vaught Middle School in my neighborhood (White Bridge) fairly recently but Metro did not even complete the entire street. They instead poured half of one side and only connected a single side street to White Bridge Road via the new sidewalks. On the other hand, Metro felt the need to place new sidewalks throughout the entire stretch of a random, cul-de-sac by Vaught Middle School that has maybe ten homes on it.

Yes, Purcell had no plan for the sidewalks the city laid back then... and they weren't cheap!! I'm all for sidewalks, but many places in the core lacked them, even after some were placed around cornfields in Glencliff.

[ExIslander]

Originally Posted by ariesjow

The problem with the issue of transit in Nashville is one of mentality. There seems to be a great divide in the Nashville metro between those who don't want our fair city to remain an unsustainable sprawlburg and those who simply don't understand or give a care about things like sustainability, sprawl, density, walkability, healthy quality of life, etc. Another portion of the problem is that people only think of places like NYC and Chicago when discussing examples of mass transit or urbanity when there are a host of other American cities that are far more comparable that have done a commendable job of implementing strong transit initiatives (Salt Lake City and Charlotte) and building smart yet smaller-scaled, urbanized cities where people aren't stacked like sardines (Portland).

Portland is a very good example. But again, there's that word: urbanized. Even at a lower density than a Chicago, a lot of people simply don't want to live in an urban environment, but they need to live relatively close to one for the sake of a job. So they work over here and live over there, and ergo: sprawl. And apparently not everyone sees it as a problem, or else they'd vote with their mortgage and live closer in.

There are good arguments to be made for the Portland-style city but trying to convince people they should like something other than what they like is always going to be a long, difficult process.

[aaronmidnight]

Portland is very urban. In fact, when I visited, I learned a fun fact about the city planners who laid out the downtown. They figured that corner real estate would be worth more than mid-block real estate. So they designed really short blocks to double the amount of corner real estate (i.e. twice as many blocks per mile as in a typical Midwestern city like Chicago). As a result, Portland's downtown feels very walkable.

But even in Portland and Chicago, I think pretty much everyone who lives outside of the downtown core has a car -- and even some who live in the downtown core own cars to get outside of the city on the weekends, or in Chicago get to distant corners of Chicagoland.

By the way, I was not a fan of the Chicago metro system. It was a huge hassle and a long time getting in from the airport to downtown. But Chicago does have a great BUS system - particularly on Michigan Avenue, where the buses run frequently, the drivers are friendly and the buses are in good condition.

[aaronmidnight]

@shinestx and @ariesjoe - Sounds like we need some good sidewalk planning in this town! I was encouraged to read recently (in the Tennessean?) that the city council is going to try to have a master plan for development standards. Has anyone attended the first two readings of the bill? I figure I'll try to go to the 3rd reading in February - my first city council meeting!

How expensive are sidewalks by the way to build and maintain? Anyone have any hard figures?

[NikitaCat]

I'm happy to say that here in St. Louis, we have the Metro rail and it is pretty awesome. I actually live across the street from one stop and I cannot tell you how awesome it is to walk across the street, pay $4 and be taken to the airport. For crazy Cardinals games or a drunken night downtown, there is always the Metro. I will admit that there have been problems with gang members from East St. Louis now fighting in areas where they would not be hanging out otherwise. Right now, police officers have to be on the trains.

They are also planning a light rail from St. Louis to Chicago. Both cities will benefit from having the work force be connected without having to resort to O'Hare and Midway... there has also been mention that it'll be better for Cardinals and Cubs fans to make it to games, lol. I think Nashville should have a rail system and I think it would be great for the city if there was a connecting rail to Atlanta.

[jetgraphics]

Originally Posted by mjtinmemphis

I am a big fan of an urban lifestyle. How many metropolitain areas under 2 million boast an effective lrt or heavy rail system?

Another question that I have is Nashville willing to support high density development considering it tends to be more expensive?

I think much of the resistance to rail mass transit is due to the misuse of terminology.

2009 December « Rail For The Valley

Previous definitions of transit mode (tram or streetcar, LRT) were based mostly on the vehicle size and weight, but with the growing popularity of the tramtrain, where one vehicle can operate as a streetcar, light rail vehicle and passenger train, the old modal definitions are now of little use. What is more, transit planners and politicians tend to call very expensive light-metro projects, light-rail, in an attempt to confuse the populace, forcing the taxpayer to fund the wrong type of transit mode needed.

The 21st century demands new definitions for streetcar/tram, LRT and light-metro – not based on the vehicle but on the quality of rights-of-ways. Zweisystem offers these definitions for ‘rail‘ transit.

Streetcar or tram: A steel-wheel on steel rail vehicle, powered by electricity (either by overhead wire or third rail), with the exception of deisel LRT, which operates on-street, in mixed traffic, with little or no signal priority at intersections.

LRT: A steel-wheel on steel rail vehicle, powered by electricity (either by overhead wire or third rail), with the exception of diesel LRT, which operates on a reserved rights-of-way with signal priority at intersections. A reserved rights-of-way is an at-grade route that is for the exclusive use of a light rail vehicle and can be as simple as a HOV lane with rails, a railway line, or as complicated as a park-like lawned boulevard.

Light-metro: A steel-wheel on steel rail vehicle, powered by electricity (either by overhead wire or third rail), which operates on a segregated rights-of way, either elevated or subway.

TramTrain: An electric or deisel vehicle that can operate as tram/streetcar, LRT or a passenger train.

It is the TramTrain which has forced a rethink on transit mode, as one vehicle can be a streetcar, a light rail vehicle and/or a commuter train, operating on one route.

What is often promoted is a "Gee whiz" and very expensive segregated / reserved right of way "light rail". Instead, cities need to consider plain vanilla streetcar / tram systems built into the surface streets.

America once built 500 electric streetcar systems in less than 20 years (1890 - 1910). Streetcar / Trolley tracks reached 34,404 miles by 1907. The interurban electric railways for the entire country totaled approximately 18,000 miles by 1917. Most cities and towns of 25,000 or more built and operated a non-oil electrical transportation system. By 1920, electric powered track mileage reached 40,000 miles. The U.S.A. did this with a population of less than one-third of today's, approximately 3% of today's GNP, and relatively primitive technology.

FWIW - Nashville had a streetcar system up to 1941.
List of streetcar systems in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[jabogitlu]

Nashville Mayor Dean turns eye to mass transit | tennessean.com | The Tennessean

[Joke Insurance]

@ Adric

I don't know if you'll see this post of mine but if you do, have you ever considered submitting those fantasy lines of yours? Might be a good idea.

[Joke Insurance]

My suggestions:

Current route with a route and station changes:

- Nashville Union Station, Woodbine, Donelson, Hermitage, Mount Juliet, Martha, Lebanon

New routes:

- Nashville Union Station, Woodbine, Nashville International Airport, Antioch, La Vergne, Smyma/Battlefield Meadows, Murfreesboro

- Nashville Union Station, Berry Hill, Oak Hill, Brentwood, Franklin, Columbia

- Nashville Union Station, Centennial Park/Vanderbilt University, Belle Meade, Bellevue, Kingston Springs/Pegram, White Bluff, Dickson

- Nashville Union Station, Tennessee State University/Fisk/Meharry, Bordeaux, Ashland City, Clarksville, Fort Cambell (limited service)

- Nashville Union Station, Greenwood/East Hill, Madison, Goodlettsville, Ridgetop/Greenbrier, Springfield

- Nashville Union Station, Greenwood/East Hill, Madison, Hendersonville, Gallatin, Portland, Portland, Franklin KY, Bowling Green KY