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Old 03-16-2011, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Beaverland, OR
588 posts, read 2,824,142 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skel1977 View Post
Hard to tell if they are working. Even if we stopped everything on earth that emitted green house gasses the temperature would continue to rise for the next decade or so. I cant remember what the exact timeline was but i saw this on discovery channel or one of those information channels.
I agree that there would be some sort of inertial effect, and that we cannot stop ALL greenhouse gas emissions, but presumably we would see some change in the RATE of increase?

What I'm trying to understand is if anyone has a clue whether these greenhouse reduction measures are actually working, or whether we are just blindly trying stuff we think will help and hoping for the best.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:46 AM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,863,103 times
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The only real method to reduce emissions is to reduce the amount f fossil fuels we burn. There's been a reduction in US emissions over the last few years but that is mostly because the economy tanked. China has more than made up for any reductions here. Any reductions in the western world will see an increase from China and India...
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Old 03-16-2011, 07:50 PM
 
664 posts, read 772,156 times
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I agree, don't see why we should kill our economy needlessly if China and India are going to be pumping the most CO2 into the air anyway. Obviously, being cleaner is always better but not at the expense of jobs, higher taxes, etc.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:36 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,863,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mn311601 View Post
Obviously, being cleaner is always better but not at the expense of jobs, higher taxes, etc.
Keeping those jobs here would lower emissions across the board, better coal tech here, stricter environmental laws and you're not needlessly expending energy shipping the products.
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
16,484 posts, read 19,535,442 times
Reputation: 13189
I like you more and more every day Goat Man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I don't pretend to be a scientist, only a reader and observer. When it comes to anthropogenic global warming I'm not 100% convinced that it is the sole cause of what we see happening today. If anything I am more apt to believe that there are larger natural cycles at work behind the scenes (solar activity seems to be a strong hypothesis), and while human actions may contribute to the overall picture, they are not the driving force behind it. How much of the impact is human I don't know. Maybe it's 10% or maybe it's 25%, either way, I think being good environmental stewards is a positive thing. So, no Chicken Little the sky is not falling, but it wouldn't hurt to be a little more careful.
I totally agree.
The Earth IS warming. That's not something that anyone can deny.
The argument is 1) are we causing it and 2) can we reverse it.

My opinion:
1) no
2) no

But the thing I DON'T understand are people that just don't want to change a thing. What is so wrong about wanting to get energy from Wind and Solar and Hyrdo and yes maybe nuclear....?
But to many people say screw it let's burn oil and coal baby! Coal is a finite resource. It may not happen for another 200 years but it will get scarce some day. As will oil.
What is wrong with solar panels on my house and an electric car plugged into the garage?
My favorite argumant against solar and wind and whatever is too many people say "oh but it's so expensive!"
I can't stand that argument. Makes me cringe when I hear a pundit or a politican say that.
Because just like everything else the price drops as technology advances. I mean come on... in the 70's if you wanted a wind trubine on your house it would cost $30,000. Minimum. and would require a team to install it on your house. Solar panels in 1970? Probably $100,000 and an even bigger team.
But we didn't give up. We kept making the tech better.
It's 2011 now.
You can buy a freaking wind turbine on Amazon for $1,000!
You can install it on a weekend with a buddy and a 6 pack.

Amazon.com: Windmax HY1000-5 1,000 Watt Max 24-Volt 5-Blade Residential Wind Generator Kit: Patio, Lawn & Garden

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Old 03-17-2011, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
16,484 posts, read 19,535,442 times
Reputation: 13189
and if someone wants to reply with "but that's only 1,000 watts... it will only run my toaster..."


You are missing the point I am making.
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Old 03-17-2011, 04:27 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,603,039 times
Reputation: 18304
Persoanlly I think its cellphone useage and from all the BS being transmitted into the air.
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Old 03-17-2011, 06:25 PM
 
41,815 posts, read 50,863,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
You can buy a freaking wind turbine on Amazon for $1,000!
You can install it on a weekend with a buddy and a 6 pack.
You still need the mast, electric supplies etc... and the most important thing a place to site it with enough wind.

Once you get all that done now you have device that can power anywhere from 0 to 10 100watt light bulbs. Someone correct me if wrong but I believe most of these wind mills operate at 30% annually the stated capacity, this of course will vary due to locations. Realistically you have device than can power 3 100 light bulbs continuously. Of course if want to do that we now need a means to store the power because the generation fluctuates....

1K and a 6 pack of beer has morphed into a long weekend and 3 or 4K investment to keep a few light bulbs burning. Whether it pays off in the end depends on how long the wind mills lasts, it would have to turn for 15 years if not longer as a quick guesstimate. Can the wind mill last that long? How about your power storage?

It's not completely useless, I'd imagine many farmers and people in areas that need portable power can make great use of it. For the masses it's simply not a good solution....

On my forum we tossed around the idea of producing electric at home using coal since we all use coal for heat. The conclusion, just as it is with wind and solar is the initial investment was way too high. To build the steam/boiler generator would be an exorbitant amount of money and just impractical because of the fluctuations in power needs.
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