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Old 10-01-2011, 10:13 AM
 
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Yet still not an huge ice shelf breaking loose as happened in Antarctica 3 years ago, which was my point. The creation of so many icebergs is because of the thawing.

Giant Antarctic ice shelf breaks into the sea | Environment | guardian.co.uk
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:52 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Yet still not an huge ice shelf breaking loose as happened in Antarctica 3 years ago, which was my point. The creation of so many icebergs is because of the thawing.

Giant Antarctic ice shelf breaks into the sea | Environment | guardian.co.uk
Not really. Cavitation is caused by many things. Concluding that it is warming is unsubstantiated.
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomander View Post
And you think this is abnormal?

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic26-4-314.pdf

Doesn't appear to be.
It's abnormal in the sense that current climatic changes are at least partly driven by human activity ..... sure there have been global warmings and coolings in the past, no one doubts that. But if you have a natural warming cycle enhanced by human activity .... activity which is contributing more and more to the warming ...... there's tremendous danger and we should start looking at ways to counter it before it runs away into an uncontrollable vicious cycle.

Quote:
Global warming is the continuing rise in the average temperature of Earth's atmosphere and oceans. The evidence for this temperature rise is unequivocal[2] and, with greater than 90% certainty, scientists have determined that most of it is caused by human activities that increase concentrations of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, such as deforestation and burning of fossil fuels.[3][4][5][6] This finding is recognized by the national science academies of all the major industrialized countries.[7] [A]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkatt View Post
People only read the parts they want to read, and assume the rest. Additionally, further investigation points to parts of Antarctica growing rapidly. When something happens in one part of the world, look for opposite effects elsewhere.

Antarctic ice is growing, not melting away | News.com.au
So are you saying that because some very few areas are experiencing cooling and slightly increased ice mass, compared to the huge amounts of melting elsewhere, that we needn't be concerned?

Today's weather here has been a bit chillier than usual. I guess global climate warming must not be true!

Here's an interesting observation:
Quote:
.......The global warming controversy refers to a variety of disputes, significantly more pronounced in the popular media than in the scientific literature,[129][130] regarding the nature, causes, and consequences of global warming. The disputed issues include the causes of increased global average air temperature, especially since the mid-20th century, whether this warming trend is unprecedented or within normal climatic variations, whether humankind has contributed significantly to it, and whether the increase is wholly or partially an artifact of poor measurements. Additional disputes concern estimates of climate sensitivity, predictions of additional warming, and what the consequences of global warming will be.

In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases. No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view,[131][132] though a few organisations hold non-committal positions.
Here's an old favorite of mine:


1. Climate Change -- the scientific debate - YouTube


2. Climate Change -- the objections - YouTube


3 - Climate Change -- Anatomy of a myth - YouTube
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Old 10-01-2011, 04:34 PM
 
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Climate change is clear and can be measured. The cause is not clear. Those that so vehemently deny the change are probably just exhibiting the knee jerk reaction that they don't or won't acknowledge man might be the cause.

They probably drive an SUV getting 6 - 8 MPG to bring home 20 pounds of groceries.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:29 AM
 
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We've been inundated with numerous glacial advances and glacial retreats since the start of the Pleistocene Ice Age some 2.5 million years ago (we're still currently in it) as it probably is connected to the Milankovitch Cycle.
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
It's abnormal in the sense that current climatic changes are at least partly driven by human activity ..... sure there have been global warmings and coolings in the past, no one doubts that. But if you have a natural warming cycle enhanced by human activity .... activity which is contributing more and more to the warming ...... there's tremendous danger and we should start looking at ways to counter it before it runs away into an uncontrollable vicious cycle.
So, the these are not abnormal occurrences, but their current existence is the cause of man? How can you use the occurrences of such as evidence to mans cause, when they are not abnormal?
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Old 10-02-2011, 08:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Climate change is clear and can be measured.
Sure, in the sense that it happens, but there are questions concerning the "measurement" of such as it varies between the data and methodology of many making such assessments.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
The cause is not clear.
True, which is often the main point of contingency for many who object to the position of CAGW. That is, policy should not be driven with such uncertainty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Those that so vehemently deny the change are probably just exhibiting the knee jerk reaction that they don't or won't acknowledge man might be the cause.

How can one acknowledge that which is not evident? It is "acceptance" which is more commonly the issue concerning such and many are unwilling to "accept" an occurrence that is not properly supported.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
They probably drive an SUV getting 6 - 8 MPG to bring home 20 pounds of groceries.
The "probably" of such a generalization is often why so many object to the claims made as the claims are often rooted in similar beliefs.
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Old 10-02-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,068 posts, read 10,108,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
We've been inundated with numerous glacial advances and glacial retreats since the start of the Pleistocene Ice Age some 2.5 million years ago (we're still currently in it) as it probably is connected to the Milankovitch Cycle.
I was going to bring up the Milankovitch cycles, but didn't realize it was that complicated.
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
I was going to bring up the Milankovitch cycles, but didn't realize it was that complicated.
We sure can't blame continental drift as the ''Isthmus of Panama'' has been closed some 3 million years ago and that most likely brought about the current Pleistocene ice age we've been in for some 2.5 million years now .
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Old 10-02-2011, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Va. Beach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woof View Post
It's abnormal in the sense that current climatic changes are at least partly driven by human activity .....
Really? Did you know that volcanic eruptions emit far more in the way of gasses and particulate than humans do?
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