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Old 09-29-2022, 07:34 PM
 
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Right now, there's nothing scientifically significant about the start of the new year in terms of earth's position relative to the sun. At first, I thought it might ideal to start the new year on one of the equinoxes. The problem with this, however, is that there are two of them, and neither one is more significant than the other. The same holds true for the solstices. Then, I wondered if the perihelion, the time of year at which earth is at its closest to sun, would be the best place to start the new year. However, the perihelions are not spaced evenly apart from year to year, and the distance between earth and sun at each perihelion varies slightly. The same holds true for the aphelion, the time of year at which earth is at its furthest from sun. What I'm wondering is, from a scientific point of view, what the correct cut-off for the new year should be.
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Old 09-29-2022, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Canada
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Scientifically, hmmmm? I think it is already scientifically perfected the way it is with the new year beginning within 2 to 4 weeks after winter solstice when Earth is starting to swing away from it's furthest point from the sun and is beginning its return to its closest point to the sun. This works for nature.

.
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Old 09-30-2022, 09:14 AM
 
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Cosmologically there is no correct time when a new year starts.

Psychologically, for the benefit of humans, I would prefer if the new year began at the vernal equinox. This would mirror a human life cycle, when growth is fastest at the start of a life, vitality peaks less than midway through, and the second half is a long decline.
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Old 10-07-2022, 03:58 PM
 
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Scientifically one might even say that there is no such thing as a "new year." Just another cycle around the sun. Wheel in the sky keeps on turning. Choosing a beginning point is all a matter of human interpretation, and there is nothing more "new" about Jan.1 than about Dec.31.

But on the human scale there is enormous value in choosing a "new beginning" that can wipe away the sadness and mistakes of the past year. Many northern-hemisphere religions followed the vernal equinox, except for the Irish who used to celebrate New Year on Nov.1, with the Samhain festival's end-of-time chaos on Oct.31, a time-honored tradition which we today love as Halloween. The Western tradition we're mostly connected to (dating back to Rome I assume, with the Saturnalia celebrations) chose the winter solstice as the time when the year "turns," and Christianity continued the tradition by choosing approximately 3 weeks before the winter solstice as the start of the Christian year, but the old Nordic cultures celebrated the solstice sometime in early January when the lengthening of the day had become obvious. Then they did their multiple-day festival of the Yule, brought in a log from the woods to symbolize the rebirth of nature, and got roaring drunk in honor of the gods.
Happy Halloween!
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Old 10-07-2022, 09:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast View Post
Scientifically one might even say that there is no such thing as a "new year." Just another cycle around the sun. Wheel in the sky keeps on turning. Choosing a beginning point is all a matter of human interpretation, and there is nothing more "new" about Jan.1 than about Dec.31.

But on the human scale there is enormous value in choosing a "new beginning" that can wipe away the sadness and mistakes of the past year. Many northern-hemisphere religions followed the vernal equinox, except for the Irish who used to celebrate New Year on Nov.1, with the Samhain festival's end-of-time chaos on Oct.31, a time-honored tradition which we today love as Halloween. The Western tradition we're mostly connected to (dating back to Rome I assume, with the Saturnalia celebrations) chose the winter solstice as the time when the year "turns," and Christianity continued the tradition by choosing approximately 3 weeks before the winter solstice as the start of the Christian year, but the old Nordic cultures celebrated the solstice sometime in early January when the lengthening of the day had become obvious. Then they did their multiple-day festival of the Yule, brought in a log from the woods to symbolize the rebirth of nature, and got roaring drunk in honor of the gods.
Happy Halloween!
There is also a logic to the solstice new year. It's a macrocosm of the night-day cycle. The new day starts while we sleep for convenience.
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Old 10-07-2022, 09:24 PM
 
1,022 posts, read 737,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Fork Fantast View Post
Scientifically one might even say that there is no such thing as a "new year." Just another cycle around the sun. Wheel in the sky keeps on turning. Choosing a beginning point is all a matter of human interpretation, and there is nothing more "new" about Jan.1 than about Dec.31.

But on the human scale there is enormous value in choosing a "new beginning" that can wipe away the sadness and mistakes of the past year. Many northern-hemisphere religions followed the vernal equinox, except for the Irish who used to celebrate New Year on Nov.1, with the Samhain festival's end-of-time chaos on Oct.31, a time-honored tradition which we today love as Halloween. The Western tradition we're mostly connected to (dating back to Rome I assume, with the Saturnalia celebrations) chose the winter solstice as the time when the year "turns," and Christianity continued the tradition by choosing approximately 3 weeks before the winter solstice as the start of the Christian year, but the old Nordic cultures celebrated the solstice sometime in early January when the lengthening of the day had become obvious. Then they did their multiple-day festival of the Yule, brought in a log from the woods to symbolize the rebirth of nature, and got roaring drunk in honor of the gods.
Happy Halloween!

Great post. The word Scientifically being used, I believe you are correct. That's a lot of info you compiled in a short post.
For me, I need to keep things more simple tho.

Scientifically - The new year begins a day after the old year ends. Any date will do.
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Old 10-08-2022, 04:29 AM
 
Location: The Driftless Area, WI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avondalist View Post
Cosmologically there is no correct time when a new year starts.

Psychologically, for the benefit of humans, I would prefer if the new year began at the vernal equinox. This would mirror a human life cycle, when growth is fastest at the start of a life, vitality peaks less than midway through, and the second half is a long decline.
That makes the most sense, at least here in the Northern Hemisphere.

January is named after the Roman god Janus, who had two faces-- one looking back into the old year and one looking forward into the new year.....Somewhere along the way (I don't know the details) Europeans started calling March 1st the beginning of the new year, then they switched it back to Jan 1 sometime in the 1700s. George Washington (birthday 2/22), for instance, suddenly got a year older when they made the switch.
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Old 10-08-2022, 08:04 AM
 
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The problem with starting the year at the Vernal Equinox, which I basically agree with, is that the Southern Hemisphere is starting winter when the Northern Hemisphere is starting spring.

Any indigenous calendar that honors nature, like the lunar calendars of yore, is a more natural way of relating to time and organizing time and activity. The Gregorian calendar is artificial and IMO responsible for much of the angst that modern folk experience. It's very subtle though, because the Gregorian calendar has been in use a long, long time.

Jews and Muslims, for example, utilize a more natural calendar in addition to the enforced Gregorian calendar of modern times. They get to experience a different kind of reality - a cyclical reality that is more natural.
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Old 10-08-2022, 08:19 PM
 
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There's no objective need for the new year to align with, say, a solstice or an equinox. Having it align with an already-established break between two months is useful. For continuity's sake, it makes much more sense to just keep it the way it is right now rather that fiddle with it.

The calendar is fine.
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Old 10-08-2022, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Yeah, I like the idea of aligning it with the plant lifecycle, but like other said, it would vary based on location.

"Birth" would be the start of the year, and "death" is the end of the year.

For New York, it could be

Spring = birth
Summer = prime of life
Autumn = old age
Winter = death

For a tropical wet/dry climate like those found in India or West Africa, it could be

Wet season = birth -> prime of life
Dry season = old age -> death
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