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In the 1950's and 60's I could count 100 deer across the road from our home almost every evening. That is when the fields were not covered with snow. Our HS was always closed for the first day of buck season because most teenagers, of hunting age, would be in the woods. Back then, if you were a young male, you would be looked on as weird if you did not hunt. There was also many poachers.
Our Game Commission took pride in Pennsylvania having one of the largest deer populations in the US. They regulated this large herd by restricting doe licenses and some years not even having a doe season. They also encouraged hunters to help feed the deer during some of the harsh winters. By feeding; I mean that they wanted us to partially cut some clumps of maple trees and bend them over so they still lived. That way, for several years, deer could browse on the limbs. They also wanted us to drop hay in the deep woods during harsh conditions.
But over the years the special interest groups pressured our Game Commission to reduce the herds. We had thousands of deer/car collisions and I would not want to argue for higher deer populations with somebody that lost a loved one to one of these collisions. There were many others that also wanted lower populations. Some hunters, even today, constantly push for longer seasons and higher bag limits. Our Game Commission gave into the pressure and extended the seasons, combined seasons (allowing doe and buck hunting at the same time) and created new seasons for muzzle loader. Then we had the introduction of the coyotes, which might or might not have been intentional.
About twenty years ago, around the time of the mad cow disease scare, I had a chance to talk to the head of our PA GC. I asked him what PA would do if we ever found the disease in our native deer population. He responded, without any hesitation, that we would kill all of our deer. In the back of my mind I am thinking: This is the man we entrust to protect our wildlife. That was also about the time that the coyotes showed up and our deer populations radically declined. Within the last few years there has been at least one case of mad cow disease in our deer: Pa. Records First Confirmed Case Of Fatal Disorder Affecting Deer « CBS Philly. I am curious how our GC will handle this situation if more cases are found? Possibly we will be reintroducing wolves (or more coyotes)? I am curious if wolves/coyotes could get mad cow from eating infected deer? Would we also exterminate them?
In the 1950's and 60's I could count 100 deer across the road from our home almost every evening. That is when the fields were not covered with snow. Our HS was always closed for the first day of buck season because most teenagers, of hunting age, would be in the woods. Back then, if you were a young male, you would be looked on as weird if you did not hunt. There was also many poachers.
Our Game Commission took pride in Pennsylvania having one of the largest deer populations in the US. They regulated this large herd by restricting doe licenses and some years not even having a doe season. They also encouraged hunters to help feed the deer during some of the harsh winters. By feeding; I mean that they wanted us to partially cut some clumps of maple trees and bend them over so they still lived. That way, for several years, deer could browse on the limbs. They also wanted us to drop hay in the deep woods during harsh conditions.
But over the years the special interest groups pressured our Game Commission to reduce the herds. We had thousands of deer/car collisions and I would not want to argue for higher deer populations with somebody that lost a loved one to one of these collisions. There were many others that also wanted lower populations. Some hunters, even today, constantly push for longer seasons and higher bag limits. Our Game Commission gave into the pressure and extended the seasons, combined seasons (allowing doe and buck hunting at the same time) and created new seasons for muzzle loader. Then we had the introduction of the coyotes, which might or might not have been intentional.
About twenty years ago, around the time of the mad cow disease scare, I had a chance to talk to the head of our PA GC. I asked him what PA would do if we ever found the disease in our native deer population. He responded, without any hesitation, that we would kill all of our deer. In the back of my mind I am thinking: This is the man we entrust to protect our wildlife. That was also about the time that the coyotes showed up and our deer populations radically declined. Within the last few years there has been at least one case of mad cow disease in our deer: Pa. Records First Confirmed Case Of Fatal Disorder Affecting Deer « CBS Philly. I am curious how our GC will handle this situation if more cases are found? Possibly we will be reintroducing wolves (or more coyotes)? I am curious if wolves/coyotes could get mad cow from eating infected deer? Would we also exterminate them?
Uggg. Interesting list of issues. You are right next door to WV, and coyotes were , intentionally, introduced there. I imagine PA is getting spillover. I don't envy you guys for coyote issues. Ours is bad, here, and food, water and cover far more scarce. WV wanted to control the turkeys, and the yotes seem to not have much interest in them. They hit the deer harder, but, their favorite haunts are around people. Snagging domestic stuff is way easier. Bringing them in was not wise.
Our issues, here, with coyotes is similar. Their populations have boomed around the spread of people. This is where they cause the biggest problems. Uninformed people even feed them, and wonder why their Corgi or cat disappears when they forget to put out the food. Where coyotes are, coyotes will, always, be. They can't be exterminated. Wolves can. But, I don't see wolves as the biggest problem.
NDOW kills hundreds of coyotes, every year. Aerial shooting, trapping, poisoning even( a method I despise) varmint hunters and ranchers kill hundreds more. Yet, they flourish. And we are hardly as lush an area as you guys, back there. "The Shoshone call coyote "Iz'hape'. It means the "trickster spirit"..sort of. He is the wise one. He laughs at we weak people. And misses no opportunity to mess with us. He is a favored animal. Messenger, hunter, usurper, thief, robber and Jester. Consummate at all.
I ,personally, both, respect and hate him. He will ALWAYS be here. Long after we pitiful humans are gone. Iz'Hape' is proof positive, that God has a sense of humor. Coyote cares nothing about us, save what he can plunder and have fun doing it. Science and technology be damned. He IS a spiritual animal. The perfect survivalist and ultimate pragmatist.
He's been a presence in my life since my life began and I came to know the world. I've known him as both enemy and friend, but, you can't count on him being one or the other, consistently. And now, he has bred with the wolf. Welcome to the future, mon Ami.
Uggg. Interesting list of issues. You are right next door to WV, and coyotes were , intentionally, introduced there. I imagine PA is getting spillover. I don't envy you guys for coyote issues. Ours is bad, here, and food, water and cover far more scarce. WV wanted to control the turkeys, and the yotes seem to not have much interest in them. They hit the deer harder, but, their favorite haunts are around people. Snagging domestic stuff is way easier. Bringing them in was not wise.
Our issues, here, with coyotes is similar. Their populations have boomed around the spread of people. This is where they cause the biggest problems. Uninformed people even feed them, and wonder why their Corgi or cat disappears when they forget to put out the food. Where coyotes are, coyotes will, always, be. They can't be exterminated. Wolves can. But, I don't see wolves as the biggest problem.
NDOW kills hundreds of coyotes, every year. Aerial shooting, trapping, poisoning even( a method I despise) varmint hunters and ranchers kill hundreds more. Yet, they flourish. And we are hardly as lush an area as you guys, back there. "The Shoshone call coyote "Iz'hape'. It means the "trickster spirit"..sort of. He is the wise one. He laughs at we weak people. And misses no opportunity to mess with us. He is a favored animal. Messenger, hunter, usurper, thief, robber and Jester. Consummate at all.
I ,personally, both, respect and hate him. He will ALWAYS be here. Long after we pitiful humans are gone. Iz'Hape' is proof positive, that God has a sense of humor. Coyote cares nothing about us, save what he can plunder and have fun doing it. Science and technology be damned. He IS a spiritual animal. The perfect survivalist and ultimate pragmatist.
He's been a presence in my life since my life began and I came to know the world. I've known him as both enemy and friend, but, you can't count on him being one or the other, consistently. And now, he has bred with the wolf. Welcome to the future, mon Ami.
I have not heard a coyote or have seen one for six or seven years - but we don't have the deer we once had. I retired from trucking about six years ago. I saw more dead coyotes on I-84 around Waterbury, Connecticut than I ever saw in PA. Of course that is the area where the one woman hit the mountain lion about two years ago.
About twenty years ago we had about fifty to seventy deer hanging around out house. Today we see four to eight. The coyotes could have just followed the larger herds? Or, if they were introduced; possibly they neutered them before they released them? All we do know is that there was plenty of money at stake - thousands of auto claims every year; not to mention the other big players. I heard rumors that PA exchanged our wild turkey for coyotes from Arizona - but they could have just been rumors? Besides; our coyotes were always considerably larger than the western counterpart.
Dr. Gary Alt took over our Game Commission about fifteen to twenty years ago and switched the focus from saving the doe to saving small buck. That was about the same time as the introduction of the coyotes. My feeling is that our GC is just as destructive as any coyote. But, that said, (like I stated before) I will not sit and argue with somebody that lost a loved one in a deer/car collision.
More cars and more roads mean more wildlife will die on our roads. Our cities are spreading out into the suburbs and the suburbs are spreading out in the the woods. Until we can truly talk about population control; wildlife will continue to decline.
I have not heard a coyote or have seen one for six or seven years - but we don't have the deer we once had. I retired from trucking about six years ago. I saw more dead coyotes on I-84 around Waterbury, Connecticut than I ever saw in PA. Of course that is the area where the one woman hit the mountain lion about two years ago.
About twenty years ago we had about fifty to seventy deer hanging around out house. Today we see four to eight. The coyotes could have just followed the larger herds? Or, if they were introduced; possibly they neutered them before they released them? All we do know is that there was plenty of money at stake - thousands of auto claims every year; not to mention the other big players. I heard rumors that PA exchanged our wild turkey for coyotes from Arizona - but they could have just been rumors? Besides; our coyotes were always considerably larger than the western counterpart.
Dr. Gary Alt took over our Game Commission about fifteen to twenty years ago and switched the focus from saving the doe to saving small buck. That was about the same time as the introduction of the coyotes. My feeling is that our GC is just as destructive as any coyote. But, that said, (like I stated before) I will not sit and argue with somebody that lost a loved one in a deer/car collision.
More cars and more roads mean more wildlife will die on our roads. Our cities are spreading out into the suburbs and the suburbs are spreading out in the the woods. Until we can truly talk about population control; wildlife will continue to decline.
Yea..coyotes, cockroaches, rats and flies are the only beneficiaries of advancing sprawl. The more I see of the limp attempts at wildlife "management" by educated idiots, the more I listen to my Indian buddy. He grew up in Battle Mt, on the Northern Shoshone Te Moak rez. Smart feller, hes actually got impressive degrees in range management and wildlife biology, and worked for NDOW for a long time.
But, he still has a spiritual thing going on. He works for the Indian Tribal Housing Authority now. He tells me "coyotes time is coming". What that, actually means, I didn't ask. But, we both remember better times. I can draw my own inferences.
Horses were introduced by people to N. America. Asian carp were introduced. The Canadian grey wolf has been introduced to the Yellowstone ecosystem and beyond. You may have to look at sources other than pro-wolf sites. We've always had wolves in WY. Not the invasive species.
And, I and other hunters, certainly have sacrificed a tag to put an old animal out of it's misery. Also, local people are usually more interested in freezer meat than trophies. Dry does or dry cow elk are the best. Young males rate second. Meat from old, large antlered or horned animals is the least tasty.
Other sources than pro-wolf sites? Try three separate biologists. An independent, former FWP and current FWP. All stated the wolves that were placed in Yellowstone were not a different species. We have always had wolves in Montana too and the ones that are spreading across the west are not all coming from Yellowstone. Not sure if you are aware of this but Canada is like right next to us. I can see it from my house.
And the biologist's study was financed by whom? And the increased budget to the FWP benefitted whom?
The pro-wolf lobby was all about money. Money made on emotional response.
Would Canadian Grays have migrated south to the US on their own? We'll never know. But if they had, and hadn't had the backing of urban/suburbanites who know so little about ecosystems, etc, they would have been addressed like the interlopers they are.
And the biologist's study was financed by whom? And the increased budget to the FWP benefitted whom?
The pro-wolf lobby was all about money. Money made on emotional response.
Would Canadian Grays have migrated south to the US on their own? We'll never know. But if they had, and hadn't had the backing of urban/suburbanites who know so little about ecosystems, etc, they would have been addressed like the interlopers they are.
You really don't have a clue, do you? Do you realize how minute the differences between Canis lupus irremotus and Canis lupus occidentalis are? Do you even know how a subspecies is defined? Do you understand that even scientists argue with each other over what groups of animals are seperate subspecies or the same subspecies because the differences can be so small?
The fact of the matter is the reintroduction of wolves to Yellowstone was an enormous success. The wolves have completely revitalized the ecosystem. This can and will happen elsewhere too if we continue reintroduction.
What is your vendetta against wolves? Are you scared of them?
archive/audubonmagazine.org/coyote/ interesting article. Came up on a Google search for coyote and wolf population densities and range. The article states that over 400000 yotes are culled each year, most by both state and federal agencies or private contracts awarded by them. Basically, a yote a minute, bites the dust, and yet, there are more now, and growing, than ever there were.
It also seems, that they are also benefiting, handily, from reintroduction of wolves. Lol, whoda thunk? Remains of wolf kills adds a boost to their diet. Yep, there is nothing that they can't adapt to and benefit from. Ol' Wiley can find a silver lining in a septic tank.
My theory, judging from the way wolves are spreading, and the explosion of the coyote, is, that interbreeding will get far more common, and the coywolf will emerge as a new top dog. Lovely thought. Sheep ranchers are the ones worst effected by both wolves and coyotes. The biggest share of damage, somewhere around 250-300 thousand head, killed each year. Hey! Eat Lamb!! 50 million coyotes and 20000 wolves can't be wrong! Lol.
A plaster on another thread was how I heard about the coywolf thing. I didn't think that was actually so.etching that could be common, but it is, and getting more so. Searching through the available data on it reveals ;a spooky trend there, and some damn impressive hybrid predators. More unforeseen consequences of thinking science is smarter than nature. Science, itself, would be great, if it weren't for "scientists". At least the ones who get all their information from books and have never set foot on the range or in the woods a d have zero actual experience with predators.
Lots of their ideas look and sound great on paper, may even .make a modicum of sense, in some ways. Thing is, a plan and designs are not ever going to get put together as planned. Never do things go by the numbers, and important variables always get overlooked. That's all fine, of you're building a house, designs can be corrected in the field. Not so easy when you're dealing with living organisms. An oops , there, has disastrous, and permanent, results.
Regardless of how one feels about the introduction/reintroduction of predators like wolves and coyotes, its to late, now to worry about it. We will be stuck with the results. This wall can't be set back a few inches to accommodate a mismeasurment.
And the biologist's study was financed by whom? And the increased budget to the FWP benefitted whom?
The pro-wolf lobby was all about money. Money made on emotional response.
Would Canadian Grays have migrated south to the US on their own? We'll never know. But if they had, and hadn't had the backing of urban/suburbanites who know so little about ecosystems, etc, they would have been addressed like the interlopers they are.
It was financed by no one. Both FWPs are also anti-wolf by the way.
The emotions go both ways and if the pro-wolf side gets on my nerves for it then by golly so will the antis. Quit pretending you know whether wolves would have come down or not. They never left the Bob Marshall.
archive/audubonmagazine.org/coyote/ interesting article. Came up on a Google search for coyote and wolf population densities and range. The article states that over 400000 yotes are culled each year, most by both state and federal agencies or private contracts awarded by them. Basically, a yote a minute, bites the dust, and yet, there are more now, and growing, than ever there were.
It also seems, that they are also benefiting, handily, from reintroduction of wolves. Lol, whoda thunk? Remains of wolf kills adds a boost to their diet. Yep, there is nothing that they can't adapt to and benefit from. Ol' Wiley can find a silver lining in a septic tank.
My theory, judging from the way wolves are spreading, and the explosion of the coyote, is, that interbreeding will get far more common, and the coywolf will emerge as a new top dog. Lovely thought. Sheep ranchers are the ones worst effected by both wolves and coyotes. The biggest share of damage, somewhere around 250-300 thousand head, killed each year. Hey! Eat Lamb!! 50 million coyotes and 20000 wolves can't be wrong! Lol.
A plaster on another thread was how I heard about the coywolf thing. I didn't think that was actually so.etching that could be common, but it is, and getting more so. Searching through the available data on it reveals ;a spooky trend there, and some damn impressive hybrid predators. More unforeseen consequences of thinking science is smarter than nature. Science, itself, would be great, if it weren't for "scientists". At least the ones who get all their information from books and have never set foot on the range or in the woods a d have zero actual experience with predators.
Lots of their ideas look and sound great on paper, may even .make a modicum of sense, in some ways. Thing is, a plan and designs are not ever going to get put together as planned. Never do things go by the numbers, and important variables always get overlooked. That's all fine, of you're building a house, designs can be corrected in the field. Not so easy when you're dealing with living organisms. An oops , there, has disastrous, and permanent, results.
Regardless of how one feels about the introduction/reintroduction of predators like wolves and coyotes, its to late, now to worry about it. We will be stuck with the results. This wall can't be set back a few inches to accommodate a mismeasurment.
Well on one hand the coyotes benefit from wolves but only northern wolves interbreed with them. Our wolves kill them. Quite effectively. The coyote population is halved in Yellowstone since the reintroduction.
And have you ever raised sheep by chance?
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Sheep ranchers are the ones worst effected by both wolves and coyotes. The biggest share of damage, somewhere around 250-300 thousand head, killed each year. Hey! Eat Lamb!! 50 million coyotes and 20000 wolves can't be wrong! Lol. 
