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Old 07-01-2019, 12:58 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,247 posts, read 6,588,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post


I don't know much about much, but it would seem to me that a well fed animal would be a healthier animal than one not well fed.

That's only true of wild animals that are foraging for their own natural foods in wild areas, because they are getting more variety and better balanced natural diets that are healthier for them. They are eating healthy wild foods and soils (yes, all wild animals eat lots of soil too, for the essential minerals in soils) the way nature intended them to eat and the way their bodies are adapted to.

Wild animals that become habituated to eating more of the domestic foods that humans provide for them become malnourished and less healthy because they aren't getting enough variety and balanced diets from eating the many more natural foods and soils that they need. They get progressively fatter and weaker or develop diseases and organ disorders because of the less healthy domestic foods which they are not naturally adapted to and wouldn't normally be having access to too much of it in nature.

It's like giving a steady daily diet of greasy junk food and sugary sweets to a child and unrealistically expecting the child to not become a spoiled, demanding, addicted, fat, diabetic weakling with no survival skills or natural instincts.

Then there's the many problems with all the diseases, insects, pests, vermin and predatory animals that come as a result of attracting and feeding wild animals at feeders. And problems with the wild animals becoming habituated and dependent on human habitats and humans. What happens to them if all of a sudden their source of human provided food isn't there for them and they have become dependent on it? They go looking for it elsewhere and become aggressive toward other humans and their livestock and destructive of human property. That ends up getting them killed.

.

Last edited by Zoisite; 07-01-2019 at 01:07 PM..
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:21 PM
 
6,590 posts, read 2,379,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoisite View Post
That's only true of wild animals that are foraging for their own natural foods in wild areas, because they are getting more variety and better balanced natural diets that are healthier for them. They are eating healthy wild foods and soils (yes, all wild animals eat lots of soil too, for the essential minerals in soils) the way nature intended them to eat and the way their bodies are adapted to.

Wild animals that become habituated to eating more of the domestic foods that humans provide for them become malnourished and less healthy because they aren't getting enough variety and balanced diets from eating the many more natural foods and soils that they need. They get progressively fatter and weaker or develop diseases and organ disorders because of the less healthy domestic foods which they are not naturally adapted to and wouldn't normally be having access to too much of it in nature.

It's like giving a steady daily diet of greasy junk food and sugary sweets to a child and unrealistically expecting the child to not become a spoiled, demanding, addicted, fat, diabetic weakling with no survival skills or natural instincts.

Then there's the many problems with all the diseases, insects, pests, vermin and predatory animals that come as a result of attracting and feeding wild animals at feeders. And problems with the wild animals becoming habituated and dependent on human habitats and humans. What happens to them if all of a sudden their source of human provided food isn't there for them and they have become dependent on it? They go looking for it elsewhere and become aggressive toward other humans and their livestock and destructive of human property. That ends up getting them killed.

.

Just for the sake of discussion...


Are you saying that if I made sure a fox got a can of dog food a day, that's worse than the fox foraging for mice, voles and such, that MIGHT be carriers of ticks or other disease carrying critters?


I have no skin in the game, so to speak. I'm not in the habit of feeding animals, except the birds, which include the humming birds.


But it seems to me that say... feeding a can of dogfood out or leaving some dry dog food out for a fox makes more sense than a fox scrounging in trash, or half starving and getting mangy and sick.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego
35,210 posts, read 32,177,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
Just for the sake of discussion...


Are you saying that if I made sure a fox got a can of dog food a day, that's worse than the fox foraging for mice, voles and such, that MIGHT be carriers of ticks or other disease carrying critters?


I have no skin in the game, so to speak. I'm not in the habit of feeding animals, except the birds, which include the humming birds.


But it seems to me that say... feeding a can of dogfood out or leaving some dry dog food out for a fox makes more sense than a fox scrounging in trash, or half starving and getting mangy and sick.
This happens a lot and if the person feeding it moves or passes away then the fox starts looking for other humans it thinks will feed it. The problem is the next sucker doesn't know its after a can of food, freaks out and calls animal control. Sometimes they try and relocate it and sometimes they just put it down. Or it switches to the next available food source which would be people's small pets.
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Old 07-01-2019, 01:56 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
This happens a lot and if the person feeding it moves or passes away then the fox starts looking for other humans it thinks will feed it. The problem is the next sucker doesn't know its after a can of food, freaks out and calls animal control. Sometimes they try and relocate it and sometimes they just put it down. Or it switches to the next available food source which would be people's small pets.

A fox wouldn't likely go after anyone's pets. a coyote would...but not likely a fox. (And I do realize a fox and a coyote could both be living in the same neighborhood, and if you're trying to attract one, you'll probably attract both.)
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
A fox wouldn't likely go after anyone's pets. a coyote would...but not likely a fox. (And I do realize a fox and a coyote could both be living in the same neighborhood, and if you're trying to attract one, you'll probably attract both.)
A normal healthy fox usually no but one starving will. I've seen it on our farm first hand.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:21 PM
 
6,212 posts, read 2,871,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fisheye View Post
I might; but my question really is not against one individual. Also my State could have different rules than other states. With all of the deer/car collisions that we have every year; it is easy to believe that somebody has tried to prove negligence on the part of people that lure animals to the spot where the collision took place.

What I am asking is probably more of a question for our legal system? It might be difficult to prove? Lets say your neighbor religiously feeds birds and squirrels and you suffer a bite from a tick and contract Lyme disease. Let us pretend that you take this one step further and catch one of your neighbor's squirrels in a live trap and take it to a veterinarian to see if they can find out if it carries ticks with Lyme disease. The veterinarian then confirms your fears. Even then, in the eyes of the law, it would still be difficult to prove that your disease was caused by your neighbor's squirrels. Of course it would be easier to prove that a neighbor attracted deer to an area where you hit one with a car.

I really don't know the answer and I am not trying to change the 'system'. My neighbor is feeding in a 25 mph speed limit and it is easy to stop and let the deer cross (if your doing the speed limit). So I guess one could also say that it's like driving in a parking lot with speed bumps!
Legal answer to your inquiry. NO.
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:39 PM
 
6,590 posts, read 2,379,668 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
A normal healthy fox usually no but one starving will. I've seen it on our farm first hand.

And that would seem to support my idea of feeding the fox once in awhile. A full animal would not be likely attack another animal for food, right?


You know...I always fantasize about living on the bayou somewhere in Louisiana. I fantasize about sharing space with alligators, and gators are one of my favorite animals.


That said...I would NEVER feed an alligator because it would not be good for anyone, including the gator, for it to get used to the idea of hanging around my space, and expecting food. But if one were to sun itself on my dock...I'd probably let it do so, and admire it from somewhat afar.


I don't know...I guess I go back and forth on the issue. lol
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Old 07-01-2019, 02:41 PM
 
Location: British Columbia ♥ 🍁 ♥
7,247 posts, read 6,588,771 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassybluesy View Post
Just for the sake of discussion...


Are you saying that if I made sure a fox got a can of dog food a day, that's worse than the fox foraging for mice, voles and such, that MIGHT be carriers of ticks or other disease carrying critters?.....

Aside from the fact that it's illegal for you to do so, yes, it is 10 times worse for the fox. It's a condemnation of an early death sentence for the fox. A fed fox becomes a dead fox 10 times sooner than it would if it was leading a normal, natural life in the wilderness away from humans and human food.

And whether or not the fox is strictly foraging wild foods, or is consuming both wild foods it hunts and domestic foods that humans put out for it, if it is running around free and loose it's going to get ticks and other critters and all manner of wild diseases anyway and then it's going to bring them to your property. It's unavoidable. ALL wild animals, including birds, are in contact with or are carriers of such things, down to the tiniest mites, intestinal parasites or microbes. When they come to people's houses every DAY to eat human food they bring those uninvited things with them and poop or shed them off or breathe them out every DAY for people, pets and livestock to deal with.

The only way to prevent a fox or any other wild animal from contracting those kinds of problems is if it has been bred and born in sterile captivity and is kept permanently imprisoned and isolated in a sterilized cage and is dosed with monthly anti-worming medications and given regular disinfectant baths to sanitize it. That is no kind of good life for the animal that should have been born naturally wild and free and running wild and free with no contact with the human "kindness" of un-natural human prepared foods to habituate it and make it grow sick and weak.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept for so many people to understand that when they feed wild animals they are committing a crime against nature and against the animals and are condemning these animals to an early and un-natural death.

All for the sake human entertainment and misguided compassion.

.
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Old 07-02-2019, 08:01 AM
 
6,590 posts, read 2,379,668 times
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Well, like I said...I don't feed wild animals, except for the backyard birds. But I DO think you exaggerate the danger as well.


of course, you DO make an excellent point, that of course a wild animal is going to be carrying ticks and such. I didn't think through my previous assertions.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Swiftwater, PA
14,418 posts, read 11,729,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nov3 View Post
Legal answer to your inquiry. NO.
It is hard to believe that somebody has not taken a case at least into the civil courts.

Last night I had to come to a stop as usual to let the deer cross. Unfortunately for the motorist my local road is about half with PA plates and about half with out of state plates. Somebody from another state will probably not know the danger or how to drive around deer. Many motorist look at the deer that crossed in front of them and don't look for the one following. That is how our deer trained us 'locals' over the years.
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