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Old 08-21-2019, 11:58 AM
 
Location: SE Florida
1,322 posts, read 337,885 times
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CITES, Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species. I used to breed Emerald Tree Boas. Shipping within the Continental US did not require a CITES permit, but either importing or exporting required a CITES permit. CITES mostly deals with wild flora and fauna, but my captive bred and born (CBB) snakes still required CITES permits to ship out of the country.
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Old 08-21-2019, 06:24 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,645 posts, read 3,195,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboa View Post
CITES, Convention on the International Trade in Endangered Species. I used to breed Emerald Tree Boas. Shipping within the Continental US did not require a CITES permit, but either importing or exporting required a CITES permit. CITES mostly deals with wild flora and fauna, but my captive bred and born (CBB) snakes still required CITES permits to ship out of the country.
Yes; aviary birds and a python. Also kept Old World chameleons for decades. However, I wasn't shipping them anywhere out of the USA and bought them through retailers who had that documentation.

PS: Mostly "deals with flora and fauna"? CITES covers all flora and fauna determined to need some sort of management of international transfer/trade. Last time I looked, snakes weren't plants so they must be "fauna". Not much exists between the two.
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Old 08-22-2019, 05:58 AM
 
Location: SE Florida
1,322 posts, read 337,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
Yes; aviary birds and a python. Also kept Old World chameleons for decades. However, I wasn't shipping them anywhere out of the USA and bought them through retailers who had that documentation.

PS: Mostly "deals with flora and fauna"? CITES covers all flora and fauna determined to need some sort of management of international transfer/trade. Last time I looked, snakes weren't plants so they must be "fauna". Not much exists between the two.
If you re-read my post, it says mostly deals with wild flora and fauna. Once something is landed through the importers CITES permit (in the Continental US), it doesn't require the documentation to be shipped domestically. In Florida we have recent laws forbidding the keeping and breeding of what are called "Reptiles of special concern" (thankyou exsenator Bill Nelson). Folks that already had any of these species, were grandfathered in, but required to purchase permits. They can't breed either.
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Old 08-22-2019, 02:19 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,645 posts, read 3,195,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogboa View Post
If you re-read my post, it says mostly deals with wild flora and fauna. Once something is landed through the importers CITES permit (in the Continental US), it doesn't require the documentation to be shipped domestically. In Florida we have recent laws forbidding the keeping and breeding of what are called "Reptiles of special concern" (thankyou exsenator Bill Nelson). Folks that already had any of these species, were grandfathered in, but required to purchase permits. They can't breed either.
My apologies. I missed "wild". With some species you may still run into permit requirements with interstate transport/sales due to the Lacey Act. Again, I haven't had to deal with any species states label "of special concern" so am not familiar with it.

Would this help?

https://www.fws.gov/international/la...lacey-act.html

That whole issue with pythons/boas is a mess. Certainly there should be some way to control what idiots can do with exotic constrictors, obviously "dangerous" critters, hots, or potentially invasive pests, but get politics involved and reason goes far away.

As for requiring CITES documentation for international trade, even though the animal might have been produced domestically I still see a need for some supportable documentation. If people have enough desire for the species (whether captive-produced or wildcaught) the wild population of that species still benefits from monitoring and managing trade in it. There will always be those who try to pawn off smuggled animals if there's profit in it. A common problem with cheap exotics offered for sale is that common lie about being captive bred. They aren't. They have often been treated horribly along their way. Some novice buyer gets shocked by what a truly captive and ethically-produced animal costs. They search for bargains and some shyster will usually accommodate them. Then the stressed out compromised animal suffers and dies because of it. If the buyer refuses to lean the lesson, they'll just buy another. Those continued losses to the wild population still have impacts. Requiring CITES documentation even for "CBB" animals is one way to reduce that even if all it really does is record how much trade is actually occurring. It keeps attention where it needs to be; on species people insist on having.

I know some species are managed much more carefully by a devoted network of hobbyists/breeders. ETBs seem to be one of them.

Last edited by Parnassia; 08-22-2019 at 03:19 PM..
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Old 08-26-2019, 06:05 AM
 
Location: SE Florida
1,322 posts, read 337,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
My apologies. I missed "wild". With some species you may still run into permit requirements with interstate transport/sales due to the Lacey Act. Again, I haven't had to deal with any species states label "of special concern" so am not familiar with it.

Would this help?

https://www.fws.gov/international/la...lacey-act.html

That whole issue with pythons/boas is a mess. Certainly there should be some way to control what idiots can do with exotic constrictors, obviously "dangerous" critters, hots, or potentially invasive pests, but get politics involved and reason goes far away.

As for requiring CITES documentation for international trade, even though the animal might have been produced domestically I still see a need for some supportable documentation. If people have enough desire for the species (whether captive-produced or wildcaught) the wild population of that species still benefits from monitoring and managing trade in it. There will always be those who try to pawn off smuggled animals if there's profit in it. A common problem with cheap exotics offered for sale is that common lie about being captive bred. They aren't. They have often been treated horribly along their way. Some novice buyer gets shocked by what a truly captive and ethically-produced animal costs. They search for bargains and some shyster will usually accommodate them. Then the stressed out compromised animal suffers and dies because of it. If the buyer refuses to lean the lesson, they'll just buy another. Those continued losses to the wild population still have impacts. Requiring CITES documentation even for "CBB" animals is one way to reduce that even if all it really does is record how much trade is actually occurring. It keeps attention where it needs to be; on species people insist on having.

I know some species are managed much more carefully by a devoted network of hobbyists/breeders. ETBs seem to be one of them.
The "idiots" in the case of our python problem were the import facilities that hurricane Andrew destroyed. they started showing up about 10 years after Andrew. About the time it takes for an exotic to form a breeding population. Exotic venomous escaped as well, but they don't lay/give birth to the number of eggs a burmese/Afrock/burm-Afrock cross do. Besides these two the only other species on that list that is causing problems are the Nile Monitors. The Reticulated pythons, green anacondas and amethystine pythons have no established breeding population. Heck the amethystine python can no longer be imported, as Australia and other locations where it is found don't allow exportation of native fauna.
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Old 08-26-2019, 12:52 PM
 
Location: on the wind
7,645 posts, read 3,195,082 times
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Originally Posted by Dogboa View Post
Heck the amethystine python can no longer be imported, as Australia and other locations where it is found don't allow exportation of native fauna.
You meant they can no longer be legally exported or imported, right?
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Old 08-27-2019, 05:38 AM
 
Location: SE Florida
1,322 posts, read 337,885 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Parnassia View Post
You meant they can no longer be legally exported or imported, right?
I know some folks that found out how serious the Feds are about "importing" animals that are forbidden. Fiji Island iguanas in particular! I was out of reptiles from my mid twenties until 1999 (15 years) and had never heard of these folks until they got out of jail in the early 2000s.
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Old Today, 05:22 PM
KCZ
 
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I think the answer to the OP's question is "Yes" for the majority of parrot owners. Except for a few very common species, CITES bans the im-/exportation of parrots without special permits.
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Old Today, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
7,417 posts, read 4,270,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KCZ View Post
I think the answer to the OP's question is "Yes" for the majority of parrot owners. Except for a few very common species, CITES bans the im-/exportation of parrots without special permits.
Yes, just about all parrot species are on CITES Appendix 3, 2 or 1. The only ones which aren't are budgies, cockatiels, peach-faced lovebirds, and ring-necked parakeets: Parrot Travel CITES. (I'm actually surprised that ringed-necked parakeets aren't on appendix 2.)
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