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Old 01-11-2009, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
7,233 posts, read 6,423,528 times
Reputation: 8276

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well, no offense to anyone here, but I don't believe that it's possible for a nation to sustain itself with a decent social services system if we allow open border and open immigration. The borders should be closed immediately, with a wall built, and snipers placed along the border. The most pleasant nations to live in are ones with a strict closed border policy. Different cultures just don't mix very well sometimes, and we enable it by keeping drugs criminalized and having a generous welfare system. All these systems need to be overhauled. The time will be coming, very soon, when the debt bubble will burst, when the world will stop buying our bonds, and we will simply collapse, our huge, debt ridden empire, spent into bankruptcy. There is no way we can possibly continue to afford going on spending the way we are. The breaking point is near, whether we see hyperinflation or a deflationary bankruptcy doesn't matter, but the debt burden is too high. Bond market is in a bubble right now, as people chase cash. When that bursts, checkmate.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Omaha
2,716 posts, read 6,202,649 times
Reputation: 1220
Quote:
Originally Posted by stockwiz View Post
well, no offense to anyone here, but I don't believe that it's possible for a nation to sustain itself with a decent social services system if we allow open border and open immigration. The borders should be closed immediately, with a wall built, and snipers placed along the border. The most pleasant nations to live in are ones with a strict closed border policy. Different cultures just don't mix very well sometimes, and we enable it by keeping drugs criminalized and having a generous welfare system. All these systems need to be overhauled. The time will be coming, very soon, when the debt bubble will burst, when the world will stop buying our bonds, and we will simply collapse, our huge, debt ridden empire, spent into bankruptcy. There is no way we can possibly continue to afford going on spending the way we are. The breaking point is near, whether we see hyperinflation or a deflationary bankruptcy doesn't matter, but the debt burden is too high. Bond market is in a bubble right now, as people chase cash. When that bursts, checkmate.
Someone watched a program on CNN Saturday afternoon. Yes, I agree in principal to what you said.

I do think we need to grant legal status to the illegals currently here for many reasons. But, a reason which directly pertains to your post, we need them to start paying taxes and social security. With the amount of illegals here in the US, it hsould help to offset the imbalance between younger generations and the baby boomers who are going to start collecting SS.
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Old 01-12-2009, 11:49 AM
 
61 posts, read 160,356 times
Reputation: 34
The painting company I worked for had like 10 illegal immigrants, they told me about how they got here and I really admired their determination, they live absolutely normal lives like anyone and they aren't criminals they just want to take care of their families and they can't do it in el salvador (home of the worlds most violent gang), in fact they had more religion than me or anyone I know, think if you were a foreigner facing a possible 10 years to become a citizen? I dont think its right, but I'm not going to hate someone for it, we need a better system. Also, about how they "take all of the jobs", they're always going to be meat to cut and houses to paint, and consider that you have the means to become a lawyer or a doctor, they dont.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Omaha
2,716 posts, read 6,202,649 times
Reputation: 1220
The main thing that worries me is the projected high unemployment rate. As jobs continue to go, these jobs that "Americans won't do" will become jobs Americans will do and desperately need. It's just a crappy situation all together.
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Old 01-13-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,683 posts, read 83,244,992 times
Reputation: 41524
some form of amnesty is needed based on how long a person has been in our country, have they made an attempt to speak English, are they willing to apply for citizenship and totally free of any crimes, no matter how small? We need a second form of legalization: a workers permit program. That being said, it is time we find a way to close the borders, some can give examples of how hard these people are willing to work, for every story like that there is a story of someone who 1-can't get a job because they are being taken by an illegal or 2-how many of them are here for a government handout?

Every state is being affected by those crossing over the border, probalby NE and AR not as much, but yes, where there are meat and poultry packing plants just to mention a few places, you will see illegals. This doesn't mean everyone who works in these industries is here illegally but many are.

Let's work to change the laws to assist those who are helping our economy and crack down on laws to eleminate programs for anyone here illegally.

Nita
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:51 PM
 
29 posts, read 108,103 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepejeep View Post
Then let them come here LEGALLY!! As long as they are here illegally, they are criminals and should be treated as such. You can try to deny that illegals are a major cause of crime but it's truth. No racism at all just the facts. And it isn't only Hispanics though most people think of them when it comes to illegal immigrants.

Oh, by the way, I have met many lazy Hispanics. Do you personally know any Hispanics that buy houses with cash? Are they legal immigrants? there's no problem with legals only the illegal criminals.
I know of one Hispanic who tried to get his Visa and believe me, applying for one isn't cheap. He had been here seven years of which he was married to a US citizen for two of those. After all the paperwork, documents, and medical checkups, he was granted an appointment at the US embassy in Juarez. While his wife sat outside in the boiling son for over four hours because she wasn't allowed inside, he was questioned and told he'd need to wait...ten years. He and his wife had left high paying jobs in the US to go to this appointment. The plane tickets were $850.00 His wife wasn't going to abandon her husband so she remained with him for over five months before he persuaded her to come back to the US to be with her family. He calls her every day. Now I know why they come illegally. Now I know why they hide once they're here. Ten years? That's ridiculous. Lawbreakers? Get real. He was too tired after ten hour days as a journeyman carpenter to even dream of committing a crime! Do I know this man personally? Yes..he's my son-in-law.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,683 posts, read 83,244,992 times
Reputation: 41524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refuge51 View Post
I know of one Hispanic who tried to get his Visa and believe me, applying for one isn't cheap. He had been here seven years of which he was married to a US citizen for two of those. After all the paperwork, documents, and medical checkups, he was granted an appointment at the US embassy in Juarez. While his wife sat outside in the boiling son for over four hours because she wasn't allowed inside, he was questioned and told he'd need to wait...ten years. He and his wife had left high paying jobs in the US to go to this appointment. The plane tickets were $850.00 His wife wasn't going to abandon her husband so she remained with him for over five months before he persuaded her to come back to the US to be with her family. He calls her every day. Now I know why they come illegally. Now I know why they hide once they're here. Ten years? That's ridiculous. Lawbreakers? Get real. He was too tired after ten hour days as a journeyman carpenter to even dream of committing a crime! Do I know this man personally? Yes..he's my son-in-law.
do you think this only happens with Mexicans? You think this is unreasonable. Well it happens more than you know and it is not unreasonable. My boss (one of them) was here for many years on an entrepreneur visa. He had to show a good income and prove he was supporting himself to get pemanent residency. but first he had to return to his country (I won't mention the country but it is an ally of ours) He returned to his country, started the proceedure and is still waiting to return to America. That was 3 years ago. In the meanwhile he and his partner get to see each other a few times a year. We have no idea how long before he will be able to return to our country. By the way, if he was married he could live her legally, so I am wondering what part of your story isn't matching up..????

Obviously I disagree with you about hiding and being here illegally, no the system isn't perfect but breaking the law isn't the answer. You say your son in law and daughter gave up good paying jobs to return to Mexico. To each of us, good paying jobs can mean something different. Obviously he was living here illegally before he met her and working for a company that hired illegals. I have my doubt about how great a job this was. You also mentioned she spent 4 hours in a car as she wasn't allowed inside, is that the fault on America or Mexico?

Sorry I am not showing a lot of sympathy and yes, it is sad, but this does not make breaking the law correct.

Nita
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,683 posts, read 83,244,992 times
Reputation: 41524
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
So, the united states had no border prior to 2004? The USA had no immigration laws prior to 2004? Good god, the utopia you imagine never existed -- not anywhere. Every nation on Earth has immigration laws, and they have immigration laws for a reason.
Let me ask you this ----- do you believe in living 'green'? If the environment is a concern to you, perhaps you can square the damage mass illegal immigration has done to the environment along the border. The trash left behind is an actual hazard for the wildlife. Also, one must take into account the limited financial as well as natural resources our country has. We can neither afford millions upon millions of uneducated and unskilled people nor can our infrastructure support them. I won't even go into the very real perils of overpopulation!
The US cannot 'save' the world. I wish we could, but we can't.
good post, kerrtown seems to be out in left field someplace.

and to DTO, yes, there are many here who were born here living off the government, but they are here legally. We have a welfare system for them. Many should be working, many take advantage of the system but we have no choice but to assist them. You notice I didn't say help, because often by assisting we are not helping. BTW, illegals from Mexico are not in the same catagory as Africans you referred to unless you are talking about illegal Africans, which are few and far between. Talk about a bigotted statement. Wow
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Omaha
481 posts, read 1,150,448 times
Reputation: 211
Building a fence will not work. Deporting 12 million illegals will not work. I think that more time needs to be spent helping the impoverished in Mexico. Help the Mexican government make their country a better place for their people. If you are a teacher and have a student that is falling behind, you don't build a wall around him or make him leave, you help that student deal with the issues that are making him a poor student.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Bella Vista, Ark
71,683 posts, read 83,244,992 times
Reputation: 41524
Quote:
Originally Posted by staywarm2 View Post
Pres. Reagan gave instant citizenship to all the illegals in the U.S. in the 1980's, but he didn't close the borders, so here we are again. Millions and millions of dollars of health care costs at hospitals for them, the cost to educate their children, lack of vaccinations and spread of disease. Most of the illegals have only a 2nd grade education and barely read or write Spanish. The chances of them learning English are nil. The children, if educated at our expense will learn. To enlist in the Army, they would need communication skills to understand what the supervisors are saying. The best thing we can do is close the borders, round up the illegals and send them back. Several counties in GA are taking the ones who have finished serving their prison sentences and sending them back to Mexico. I guess the Feds are paying for that transportation. But even if they aren't, it's cheaper than keeping them here. Other ICE groups are invading businesses and rounding up illegal workers and returning them to their country of origin. The Hispanic drug dealers are bringing in lots of Meth. Mexicans often live 10-15 people to a house, parking cars all over the yard and street and making lots of noise. Think about the repercussions before you decide to be kind and keep them here. We can only absorb so many leaf blowers.
I am a Reagan lover, but this was, probably the worse mistake he made.
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