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Old 07-23-2009, 04:17 PM
 
79 posts, read 205,042 times
Reputation: 63

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpoulsen View Post
What is with people like you calling everyone that disagrees with you a "liberal." Where did I say that I think they should be able to freely enter the U.S.?? All I said is maybe you should take responsibility for your own situation and quit blaming your circumstances on an entire group of people. I mean the stuff you say is absurd. Bring their "crime and disease!" Good god. You don't think there isn't plenty of crime and disease in the "legal" population. You cite things like the murders in Norfolk. Ok. Well, what about the 1000's of murders committed in the US by "legals?" Being a person who flees a horrible situation in their home country to feed their family does NOT make someone a criminal. Are some illegals criminals? Absolutely. But plenty are simply people born in a horrible situation trying to make a better life. Yet, in your mind they are all criminal disease ridden drug dealers. My problem is YOU grouping them all together. "When they obey OUR laws and respect OUR society." You make me sick.

I am no liberal on the subject and I think the laws should be enforced. However, I also get sick and tired of people like you using the situation to blame other people for your circumstances.

I am also sick and tired of people like you reducing everything to "stupid liberal" commentary. How childish can you be?? I'm a freaking republican and i believe we should quell the influx, however I'm not a big fan of scapegoating an entire population because YOU and others like you won't take responsibility of your own life.

Uh, doing illegal activities does make one a criminal, like it or not. Republicans are just as much to blame also so I'll drop the liberal puke comments. I will admit that was uncalled for on my part. It still remains a truth that the illegals should try fixing their own nation before importing their problems into the USA. It's just as bad when dems and repubs court the illegals just to grab the vote of valid hispanics which is happening all too often. You can have your opinion, I'll have mine. When you neighborhood is trashed by the influx of uneducated and corrupt illegals, you will change your mind. That I can promise you.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:07 PM
 
5,238 posts, read 7,968,813 times
Reputation: 11402
i have no problems if pple follow the rules to get here. do the immigration red tape etc, but many or most here dont do that its a fact. people that are breaking the law should not be rewarded in any way. i completely understand pples frustrations with this issue. if you want to live here, learn the language become apart of the community. that doesnt mean one has to forget your native culture, but many create barriers by speaking only spanish in public and generally being unfriendly with never a smile or hello. shipping them back is like throwing a boomerang, its not a long term solution. but this problem didnt just start yesterday, its been like this many, many yrs. the government has mismanaged it as they do most everything. to me its not at all a racial issue, its about breaking the law and entering the country illegally and then reaping benefits that they should not be entitled to. why wouldnt pple be angry at that. if pple speak out they are called racists, but thats just to avoid the real issues of breaking laws and getting what they are not entitled to. and the politicians sit on the fence frightened to be labeled a hater. an age old song that need to change.


mattpoulsen, there are many very poor countries in the world, should we let them all stay over here illegally too? helping countries fix their own problems would be a more beneficial use of funds, than to reward pple for breaking the law. look at our own problems here, its no utopia from where i sit. there are certainly some good hard working pple just trying to make a better life, at the same time there are many involved in gang life, and crime. and gang problems in small communities that never heard of such a thing before. what positives do they bring with them. if a person is in another country illegally, what should happen to them? should they be rewarded for not getting caught, for using the system for all they can get? common sense says no.

Last edited by todd00; 07-23-2009 at 07:25 PM..
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Laurel, Nebraska
81 posts, read 159,870 times
Reputation: 47
Too funny!
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Laurel, Nebraska
81 posts, read 159,870 times
Reputation: 47
South Park Episode Player - Goobacks
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Old 07-23-2009, 10:47 PM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 4,003,928 times
Reputation: 522
Todd,

Where exactly did I state that I thought we should let them stay or not force illegal immigrants to face some sort of consequences?? Show me where.

All I stated is that I am disgusted by those who lump all Mexicans into the "illegal" category and then all "illegals" into the "diseased criminal drug dealer" category. One does NOT need to be a racist in order to be a proponent of a responsible immigration policy!!

I would add that YOU did exactly what sickens me. You explicitly claim that "most" immigrants are illegal immigrants. Why do you think this?? Do you look at there papers? I know many Mexican-Americans in Nebraska and not one single one of them is an illegal immigrant.

I would also add that if you would actually check the stats the actual net gain of immigrants from Mexico has drop to the point now that only about 300,000 net immigrants are coming each year. That means many less are coming than before and many more are going back to Mexico than before. In relation to overall population growth that number puts Mexican immigrants at a nearly 0% growth rate.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:37 PM
 
299 posts, read 564,705 times
Reputation: 416
Default No immigrants needed... legal or not.

Stumbled on this thread while looking up data on a Nebraska town.. Decided to leave a few thoughts on the subject.. I think it was Lincoln who said that if America is ever destroyed, it will be from within instead of from outside.. I suppose immigration is a bit of both.. So he will still be right. The last addition of states was in the early 1900's. Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma.. The population at 1912 was around 95 million. After that there were no unabsorbed territories, all official states.. But, I will concede, still being settled.. By the end of WWII, there were around 140 million.. A gain of 45 million people.. By now, we're pretty settled.. Growing, but settled.. Plenty of immigrants coming in.. By the end of WWII, plus 17 years, say 1962, we have around 185 million.. A gain of another 45 million.. At this point, 50 years after full contiguous statehood, we ARE settled.. And have more than enough people to make this country work.. At THIS point, we don't really NEED any more immigrants.. The interesting thing about the immigrants up till then is that, on the whole, they wanted to fit in .... to accept our culture and be one of us.. But by the mid 1960's things were changing.. we were becoming hyphenated Americans.. The new immigrants want to keep their old culture, just practice it here where the living is better, and the government - with other people's money - will help take care of them.. They are no longer coming here out of respect for our country, and wanting to be one of us.. Now they are coming here just to get in on what we have .... ( and before anyone throws a fit ... I left Alaska and Hawaii out for obvious reasons)

Now it is almost ANOTHER 50 years since the point when we were fully settled, and had no more need for immigration.. 50 years and another roughly 125,000,000 ( 125 MILLION ) more people.. Not even including up to another possibly 20 MILLION illegals.. The immigrants NOW come here, not only with a lack of respect for america ...... but with flat out disdain and scorn for us.. Their intention now is not only to not fit in ...... but that they have as much RIGHT to be here as any american.. And that they have EVERY RIGHT to abuse our systems, disrespect and disrupt our culture, and have hard working people who actually PAY for our society help them pay their bills.. And that we don't have ANY RIGHT to try to keep them out.. And they have a not only willing, but EAGER, media to SUPPORT them.... and demean any american who might not welcome their invasion. WE have become the villians IN OUR OWN HOME.. They also have a far more than willing liberal political machine, ready and eager to sell the future of this country for a vote.. But mostly, they had all along, and still have, a cowardly, "should know better" segment of the population - that actually pays for all of it - who sat by and let it happen.. Add to that a generation of 18 to 20 years old children, who don't know their butt from a hole in the ground, but have the vote.. ( and will use that vote in whatever manner their favorite entertainer tells them.) ( JUST THINK OF THAT ....... MILLIONS OF CHILDREN, MOST OF WHOM HAVE NEVER HAD TO EARN A LIVING .. CASTING VOTES THAT COULD BE THE DECIDING FACTOR IN HOW MUCH OF THEIR OWN MONEY THE BILL PAYERS IN THIS COUNTRY WILL GET TO KEEP........ AND DO IT BECAUSE OPRAH OR GEORGE CLOONEY TOLD THEM TO.. ITS AMAZING.)..

WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE IMMIGRANTS.. WE HAVEN'T FOR A LONG TIME !!! .... And it doesn't matter one bit if anyone in another country, or anyone in hollywood, or anyone in the media, or any 18 yr old, thinks we are "mean" or "racist", or "greedy".. Just because we have some land with no one living on it .. just because we can physically fit them in .. and just because there are people who WANT to get in, doesn't mean we HAVE to LET them in.. We don't OWE it to the world.. And PLEASE stop telling me we are a nation of immigrants.. I KNOW that we built a lot on immigration.. But that was back when we NEEDED immigrants.. Things are different now..

That being said ......... it doesn't really make any difference now.. Its too late to stop it.. even if we could...... but we can't.. Even if we never let another immigrant in.. The dependent segments of our population are reproducing at a staggering rate.. Each one born with their hand already out, and a liberal politician next to his crib trying to get a footprint on a voter registration card.. We saw the invasion starting long ago, and did nothing to protect our borders.. Now we are getting what we deserve.. and the invaders are laughing at us as they slowly take us over..

america is sliding steadily into becoming a third world nation.. and there's no stopping it.. We've become overpopulated, underproductive, culturally fractured, and character deficient.. and its our own fault because we sat by and watched it happen.. The people paying the bills will eventually either be driven away, or sucked dry.. What's left will not be able to support the mushrooming class of people with their hands out.. In america today, the tail wags the dog ....... and when the tail starts wagging the dog .... its all over.

Sorry everyone ....... but you know I'm right.

tiberius
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Western Nebraskansas
2,707 posts, read 6,220,283 times
Reputation: 2454
Quote:
But that was back when we NEEDED immigrants..
I take it you've never lived on a reservation.
I've had a lot of friends and neighbors over the years who would disagree strongly with the above statement...
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Old 02-14-2010, 12:58 PM
 
299 posts, read 564,705 times
Reputation: 416
The post was meant as an observation on an actual, current situation this country is facing.. Both how it evolved and how it exists today.. You can pick out any number of pockets of people who were unfairly treated.. But I was addressing the effect on the country as a whole.. Its the history of this planet that stronger populations take land from weaker populations.. Its not right or wrong ..... it just is.. History, and life, were never going to let the relatively small native population of this country keep possession of it.. It was just a matter of time.. And while you may feel they were treated unfairly, they fared much better than many other conquered populations in other lands, who were simply exterminated.. The way it happens may change, but the stronger will always take from the weaker.. Its human nature.. Its what's happening in america today.. The people who made this country into the great nation it once was, have become weak.. What was once a strong, self assured, self reliant, deliberate people .... has become a weak, self doubting, self hating, complacent people, who have chosen to sit by while their country is taken from them.. And they are even footing the bill for it to happen.. History will look on them with far less respect than it does the american indians who actually fought to keep their country..

And just for the record, jeff, I've lived on two reservations.. And I expect I have more honest respect and admiration for the american indian than you do.

tiberius
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Old 02-14-2010, 01:23 PM
 
49 posts, read 96,403 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiberius View Post
Its the history of this planet that stronger populations take land from weaker populations.. Its not right or wrong ..... it just is..
And just for the record, jeff, I've lived on two reservations.. And I expect I have more honest respect and admiration for the american indian than you do.

tiberius
tiberius, your statement surprises me that "you have more honest respect and admiration for the American Indian" and yet you can say that we -stronger - took from them - weaker. I would argue it's more like we - lacking moral values and respectful treatment of others but having the power - took from them - not necessarily weaker, just not willing to compromise their morals to treat us the way we treated them, without the power.

I highly recommend you read Kent Nerburn's "The Wold at Twilight"; it's an honest look at how our "stronger" people took land from "weaker".

But then what we did then is a little like what the banking industry - having the power $$ - is doing to us now - not having the power $$.
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Old 02-14-2010, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Western Nebraskansas
2,707 posts, read 6,220,283 times
Reputation: 2454
Actually the immigrant influx is much now, like it was 200 years ago.
Sheer numbers are the deciding factor.

Quote:
And just for the record, jeff, I've lived on two reservations.. And I expect I have more honest respect and admiration for the american indian than you do.
So far as this (since I'm going to guess that I'm "jeff" lol)-- What an odd thing to say...
I guess I just have friends and neighbors. I don't know how to quantify "honest respect" or "admiration" to know if you beat me or not.

To the original question: Every time there was a mass of immigration of cheap labor (the Chinese to build the West, the Irish to work the eastern factories, etc.) there have always been those who panicked because we don't NEED anymore immigrants.
There have always been those who were incensed that they had the nerve to speak their own language. (There are still Bohemians north of Lincoln, btw, that speak Czech. Most of them learned from non-English speaking parents and grandparents)
There have always been those who said we have to turn them back because they ourtax our resources.


What people failed to see then, as well as now, is that we must need them. Otherwise they wouldn't keep coming. For good or for bad, they must be fulfilling vital roles in our economy.
And if you actually think they're coming for welfare payments, you don't know the issue very well....

~Erin
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