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Old 05-04-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,186,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
And if you showed up at the hospital looking like this guy you'll probably be kicked out as well. I mean - all straight guys in Nebraska are gun toting rednecks, right? I got a picture right here showing it!
I'll respond to both your post here, and Go Ne's right above it.

The point is simple:

- If you show up wearing a fairy costume - like the guy in the picture - you're probably going to be kicked out of the hospital. And it's not because you're gay, because I'm sure there are heterosexuals who dress that way too.

- If you show up carrying a giant stupid gun, they're going to kick you out of the hospital. But it's not because you're a redneck with a mullet.

- If you show up at the hospital for a visit, and you're hacking up a lung because you're so sick, they're going to send you home. And it's not because your a man or a woman, straight or gay. It's because you have no business being there.


There are "minorities" who have a persecution complex. Some black people are sure that ALL of their problems are because everyone is a racist and is discriminating against them. And that's not necessarily true. Some gays are sure that ALL of their problems are because everyone is homophobic and is discriminating against them. And that's not necessarily true.


Mostly though, my point still stands: Hospitals do NOT deny homosexuals visitation rights just because they are homosexuals. Period.
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Old 05-04-2010, 08:54 PM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,186,504 times
Reputation: 3889
I have a question for those of you who keep insisting that - for instance - homosexuals are denied the right to visit people in the hospital...

HOW WOULD ANYBODY IN THE HOSPITAL KNOW THAT A VISITOR IS GAY? In other words, how would anybody in security, at the information desk, or on staff know they should forbid somebody visitation rights because that person is gay?

As I said earlier, I'm in and out of hospitals, to see clients, all the time. I have repeatedly been in every hospital in the entire Omaha area. How would any of the people at any of these hospitals know whether or not I'm gay?

I'll go one step further. Last winter I was visiting a client whose adult son was also visiting him. His adult son is 50, and gay. His son's partner was their visiting with him. How can this be?


It is long since past time to set some of the old wives' tales and hyperbole to rest!
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:16 AM
 
Location: West Omaha
1,181 posts, read 3,652,633 times
Reputation: 477
Omaha,

I agree with your previous post completely.

As far as gays in hospitals goes, its not about "any" visit. Its about visiting your "partner."

I also agree, however, that in practice it has little impact. But the theory is under certain state laws hospitals need not allow a gay partner access because he is not legally the spouse and is therefore not family. That said, and you've mentioned this, I've never seen any hospital deny access to anyone.

I think the hospital paranoia has more to do with power of attorney and the right to make decisions for your partner when they're incapacitated. By default, if my wife is unconscious and there is an important decision to be made, they'll turn to me for the answer. That isn't the case for gays. And in some states, although i haven't read up on it, some laws would potentially have the effect of not honoring a power of attorney between 1 man and another.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:39 AM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,201,829 times
Reputation: 526
When I was still with my boyfriend last year he had a major emergency where I had to take him to the hospital. I wasn't allowed to be in the room with him at first since I was not related to him. They kept trying to call his mother in the very early hours of the morning who was not available. They did finally look the the other way so I was able to be in the room with him. So don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does. The world isn't out in some conspiracy to say "gotcha Omaha Rocks!". These things really do happen.

I know there are gay people out there who would want anyone BUT their families making meal choices for them let alone life or death decisions. Some gay people aren't fortunate enough to have accepting families who love them and would deny any partner anything they couldn't deny to a spouse.

I love how you like to throw out the most polarizing pictures of gay people on here to go along with your playing ignorant act. It's things like that that lead to the negative stereotyping of and negative attitudes in general of gay people. I could find any number of photos of people in any sort of group that would demonize them. It's easy to do. You fail to realize (or choose not to) that most gay people aren't anymore outlandish in our behavior than any other people. We're just like you.

We spend time with our families, just like you...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs094.snc3/16160_1308628637184_1274625251_903835_5892750_n.jp g (broken link)

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs280.snc1/10725_1143858439956_1332344133_30382646_5279324_n. jpg (broken link)

...we spend time with our friends, just like you...

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-sjc1/hs114.snc3/16160_1296560575490_1274625251_874412_4487589_n.jp g (broken link)

...people even trust us with their babies...



Your attempts at trying to disparage gay people are juvenile and further perpetuate negativity towards gays. You're an adult, please act like one when presenting your arguments. You should see that your use of those photos as shock value are no different of when you accuse gay people of doing it for shock value too. Like I said, I know you're not a dumb guy so you surely see what you're doing when you use those pictures so I'm further convinced at this point that you're willfully ignorant and turning to incindiary tactics to present your case that you aren't eloquent enough to put into words.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:03 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,186,504 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpoulsen View Post
I think the hospital paranoia has more to do with power of attorney and the right to make decisions for your partner when they're incapacitated. By default, if my wife is unconscious and there is an important decision to be made, they'll turn to me for the answer. That isn't the case for gays. And in some states, although i haven't read up on it, some laws would potentially have the effect of not honoring a power of attorney between 1 man and another.
Right. But even that is pretty shady and unclear anymore. Even when power of attorney, etc. is clear and in writing, it can be contested - and often is. When you're talking end-of-life decisions, things can get VERY sticky. Think Terri Schiavo...
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:16 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,186,504 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
When I was still with my boyfriend last year he had a major emergency where I had to take him to the hospital. I wasn't allowed to be in the room with him at first since I was not related to him. They kept trying to call his mother in the very early hours of the morning who was not available. They did finally look the the other way so I was able to be in the room with him. So don't tell me it doesn't happen because it does. The world isn't out in some conspiracy to say "gotcha Omaha Rocks!". These things really do happen.
They didn't let you in the room with him because they had no way of knowing who you were, not because you're gay. For all they know at the hospital, you could have been the Good Samaritan, driving along and just nice enough to give a sick guy a ride to the hospital.

Even then, they let you in. So you got what you wanted.

When you're looking for everything to be a conspiracy, you'll find conspiracies everywhere.


I know there are gay people out there who would want anyone BUT their families making meal choices for them let alone life or death decisions. Some gay people aren't fortunate enough to have accepting families who love them and would deny any partner anything they couldn't deny to a spouse.
Again, this happens frequently, and it's not just about homosexuals. Think Terri Schiavo...


I love how you like to throw out the most polarizing pictures of gay people on here to go along with your playing ignorant act. It's things like that that lead to the negative stereotyping of and negative attitudes in general of gay people. I could find any number of photos of people in any sort of group that would demonize them. It's easy to do. You fail to realize (or choose not to) that most gay people aren't anymore outlandish in our behavior than any other people. We're just like you.
THAT IS MY POINT EXACTLY! Why is it so hard for people to figure that out? If you - or anybody else - shows up at a hospital dressed and acting in a bizarre way, they're not going to let you in. And it's NOT because you're gay. Get a clue!


We spend time with our families, just like you...
...we spend time with our friends, just like you...
...people even trust us with their babies...
Thank you for - again - proving my point! Let's take the picture of all the guys with the shotguns. How does anybody know if any one (or more) or the men in that picture are gay? THEY DON'T - UNLESS YOU SAY SO!

So the 4 of you (adults) go walking into the hospital to visit somebody. Why, pray tell, would one person be singled out and refused visitation because he's gay? Answer: IT WOULDN'T HAPPEN, because nobody would know anyway. THAT is the point!


Your attempts at trying to disparage gay people are juvenile and further perpetuate negativity towards gays. You're an adult, please act like one when presenting your arguments. You should see that your use of those photos as shock value are no different of when you accuse gay people of doing it for shock value too. Like I said, I know you're not a dumb guy so you surely see what you're doing when you use those pictures so I'm further convinced at this point that you're willfully ignorant and turning to incindiary tactics to present your case that you aren't eloquent enough to put into words.
I know EXACTLY what I'm doing, and why. You, on the other hand, are really ticked off because I am repeatedly PROVING that one of the main "We're victims!!!" points of homosexuals is pure BS.
You don't get a free pass on all this stuff just because you're gay.

If you want to be treated like everyone else, you better realize that everyone else gets called on their BS. So you will be too.


I'll even go so far as to say this: Why don't you go with me to visit clients in hospitals sometime? You and I will walk in together. If I need a room number I'll ask for it. We'll go everywhere together, and there will be no way for anybody to know if we're gay. I WILL GIVE YOU A 100% GUARANTEE THAT NEITHER YOU NOR I WILL BE DENIED THE RIGHT TO VISIT ANYBODY IN THE HOSPITAL.

You man enough for the challenge? I highly doubt it, because then you'd have one less thing to complain about.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,201,829 times
Reputation: 526
You're completely ignoring the point. When they asked me at the hospital who I was I said I was his boyfriend and they wouldn't let me in. It wasn't a matter of visiting someone in a recovery setting it was right at the point of it still being an emergency. Had there been any decision that needed to be made and if me and my boyfriend had talked about it before, the state of Nebraska doesn't recognize any status between two people of the same sex. Initiative 416 was one of the most over-reaching laws in the country and goes out of it's way to discriminate against same-sex couples. It was even worded so strongly that it was feared that even familial same-sex relations (father-son, mother-daughter, etc.) would fall under the new law.

Again, more childish behavior from you with the "challenges". No one is intimidated or impressed. Of course you can walk into a hospital and visit anyone you'd like. That is not at all what we are talking about. The points have been repeated numerous times by other people on here and you have ignored them and turned to childish antics and claim that this is all made up.

At this point there is no point in wasting any more of my time trying to show that you're wrong but here's a few articles all of us gays put together as part of our conspiracy to prove to you that we're mistreated normally at hospitals. The President is even in on it too.


Obama orders hospital visitation rights for gays, lesbians - CNN.com

New Rules Give Gays Hospital Visit Rights - WSJ.com

Conservatives Accept Hospital Rights for Gays - Newsweek.com
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:41 AM
 
Location: I think my user name clarifies that.
8,293 posts, read 23,186,504 times
Reputation: 3889
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO Luv View Post
You're completely ignoring the point. When they asked me at the hospital who I was I said I was his boyfriend and they wouldn't let me in. It wasn't a matter of visiting someone in a recovery setting it was right at the point of it still being an emergency. Had there been any decision that needed to be made and if me and my boyfriend had talked about it before, the state of Nebraska doesn't recognize any status between two people of the same sex. Initiative 416 was one of the most over-reaching laws in the country and goes out of it's way to discriminate against same-sex couples. It was even worded so strongly that it was feared that even familial same-sex relations (father-son, mother-daughter, etc.) would fall under the new law.

Again, more childish behavior from you with the "challenges". No one is intimidated or impressed. Of course you can walk into a hospital and visit anyone you'd like. That is not at all what we are talking about. The points have been repeated numerous times by other people on here and you have ignored them and turned to childish antics and claim that this is all made up.

At this point there is no point in wasting any more of my time trying to show that you're wrong but here's a few articles all of us gays put together as part of our conspiracy to prove to you that we're mistreated normally at hospitals. The President is even in on it too.


Obama orders hospital visitation rights for gays, lesbians - CNN.com

New Rules Give Gays Hospital Visit Rights - WSJ.com

Conservatives Accept Hospital Rights for Gays - Newsweek.com
You're right, there is no point in you trying to show me I'm wrong - because I'm not wrong.


When you went into the ER with your boyfriend, did you have ANYTHING in writing - on a legal level - authorizing you to make ANY decisions on his behalf? Of course not. So you had absolutely no legal precedent to make any medical decisions on his behalf. None. Even so, you're all upset because they didn't just "take your word for it" because you're gay and you said he's your boyfriend.

The problem is not that you're gay. The problem is that you had no legal right to even be there, let alone assume you should be allowed to make medical decisions for him. It would have been no different for me.

Why is it so hard for you to figure that out?

Even so, despite your claims of discrimination, you admitted that they let you in. How could that have happened? Hmmm...

You don't get special privileges just because you're gay. And when you're told "No" about something, it's not necessarily because you're gay. Get over your persecution complex.


And yes, I know full well why you won't accept my challenge. It's because you KNOW that you will be PROVEN WRONG. Point made.
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Old 05-05-2010, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Downtown Omaha
1,362 posts, read 4,201,829 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omaha Rocks View Post
You're right, there is no point in you trying to show me I'm wrong - because I'm not wrong.


When you went into the ER with your boyfriend, did you have ANYTHING in writing - on a legal level - authorizing you to make ANY decisions on his behalf? Of course not. So you had absolutely no legal precedent to make any medical decisions on his behalf. None. Even so, you're all upset because they didn't just "take your word for it" because you're gay and you said he's your boyfriend.

The problem is not that you're gay. The problem is that you had no legal right to even be there, let alone assume you should be allowed to make medical decisions for him. It would have been no different for me.

Why is it so hard for you to figure that out?

Even so, despite your claims of discrimination, you admitted that they let you in. How could that have happened? Hmmm...

You don't get special privileges just because you're gay. And when you're told "No" about something, it's not necessarily because you're gay. Get over your persecution complex.


And yes, I know full well why you won't accept my challenge. It's because you KNOW that you will be PROVEN WRONG. Point made.
I figured you'd say that last part. I barely have time to even read this site anymore. I have no time to go around town with you trying to prove a point I already know. Keep huffing and puffing with your big, bad self.

You're purposefully confusing visitations with the ability to make decisions on behalf of someone who is incapacitated. Spouses have that default right in those situations (like they did with Terri Schiavo). Lets assume that we did have legal status and were married in Iowa but lived in Nebraska. Even though we may have legal rights in Iowa they vanish as soon as we cross the river. You claim the situation that gays are turned away from hospitals never happens and I just provided you information stating that it does in fact happen. You can make up your own opinions, you can't make up facts. The fact is there are laws and policies in place (Nebraska among them) where gays don't have rights to make decisions over would-be spouses in medical situations like heterosexual couples do.
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Old 05-05-2010, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Western Nebraskansas
2,707 posts, read 5,361,793 times
Reputation: 2415
Quote:
They didn't let you in the room with him because they had no way of knowing who you were, not because you're gay.
precisely.
Yet a spouse would have next-of-kin rights.

That's the point that is being made.
There are certain legal rights that accompany marriage.

Quote:
The problem is not that you're gay. The problem is that you had no legal right to even be there, let alone assume you should be allowed to make medical decisions for him. It would have been no different for me.
On the contrary, because I'm straight, my marriage is legally recognized.
Because I'm straight, I'm my husband's next of kin.
Because I'm straight I'm allowed to make medical decisions for my spouse.

THOSE RIGHTS ARE DENIED TO GAY PARTNERS.

It's discrimination. Pure and simple.
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