Not everything that was needed, but this Health Care law will be good for rural America (York: 2014, homes)

[MICHAEL J]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

But many of those countries have more doctors per capita than we do in the United States as well as longer lifespans.



What alleged facts do you find to be incorrect or irrelevant?

When comparing apples to apples the life span stats become a fallacy. As in my previous post, most is due to inconsistent record keeping. In comparing actual natural deaths in the U.S. to actual natural deaths in other countries they don't have longer life spans they have massaged the data get the outcome they desire.

[MICHAEL J]

Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts?

My daughter came from San Antonio Tx to Nebraska for a visit on April 29, 2110. She is in the Air Force and had recently injured her knee and had gone in for an MRI. Today, July 9,2110, she called to tell me she had just received word back that she has broken her knee. How's that for efficiency? That's TRI-CARE....government medicine. It took over 69 days to find out she does indeed have a broken knee....A face to put with the health care mess that you sure never saw while they were shoving it down our throats... hope it doesn't become the "all too familiar" face of the future.

In contrast, my 73 year old mother-in-law was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. The day after the diagnoses she was admitted to Mayo Hospital and had a panel of five cancer specialists treating her before noon.

[Dangerous Dave]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

What did people do in the past? Die on the streets I suppose. If the social welfare programs were abolished you would end up having hundreds of thousands if not millions of people homeless and dying on the streets, just like in a third world country.

I agree that we need to address mass poverty and address it in a way that may not be politically correct, such as forced sterilization for women who have already had two children and requiring poor women on welfare to use passive birth control (IUDs, Norplant, etc.) and (men too) to keep off drugs and alcohol.

Actually, you're wrong. There wasn't mass starvation or people dying in the streets. They just acted more responsibly. Millions dying in the streets?

Democrats have been telling us that millions are already dying in the streets due to lack of Obamacare and because Reagan was heartless. Guess what... it never happened.

Your view of America before LBJ's and FDR's social utopia programs is the same as that shown in Soviet era propaganda videos. When people were pining for freedom in the Soviet Union, the communist party made videos of large masses of people sleeping on streets and panhandling and they told their subjects that the entire USA looks like what was in the videos.

Indeed, there are more people dying on the streets of the projects in Chicago and LA than there are in the areas where people are not recieving those utopian government benefits.

[MICHAEL J]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Dave

Actually, you're wrong. There wasn't mass starvation or people dying in the streets. They just acted more responsibly. Millions dying in the streets?

Democrats have been telling us that millions are already dying in the streets due to lack of Obamacare and because Reagan was heartless. Guess what... it never happened.

Your view of America before LBJ's and FDR's social utopia programs is the same as that shown in Soviet era propaganda videos. When people were pining for freedom in the Soviet Union, the communist party made videos of large masses of people sleeping on streets and panhandling and they told their subjects that the entire USA looks like what was in the videos.

Indeed, there are more people dying on the streets of the projects in Chicago and LA than there are in the areas where people are not recieving those utopian government benefits.

You’re exactly right Dave. This is the history I spoke of in an earlier post that is there for all to see. Why folks will still place their blind faith in government after 100 years of failed social programs is unbelievable.

Remember the welfare bill of LBJ in 1968? He promised to eliminate poverty within 10 years. Well guess what? After 40 years of welfare programs and over 100 times more money spent than originally promised, the poverty rate is unchanged and the actual numbers of folks considered to be below the poverty line has actually increased. The answer? More money. We never spent enough money. Same with the government run school system. It is an abject failure. The answer? More money. It’s always that we don’t spend enough money.

These government run social programs never work as promised, they never end because they never work, and bureaucrats always want to fix the failures with more programs and more money. In reality most of the problems with our healthcare system were actually caused by government intervention. (Next time you see your doctor ask him how he really feels about Medicare. I have.) Anyone want to take bets on how much this 1.12 trillion dollar healthcare system is really going to cost?

[texas_dave11]

Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn

But many of those countries have more doctors per capita than we do in the United States as well as longer lifespans.

Interesting, more doctors seems to lead to a higher mortality rate for the diseased. More doctors=higher cost and apparently less quality of healthcare.

[MICHAEL J]

Just reported by CNNMoney.com

The expanded reporting requirements, which Congress slipped into the landmark health care reform bill passed in March.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- With a new mandate looming that will require business owners to file millions more tax forms, the Internal Revenue Service has begun the daunting process of figuring out how to turn the law's sweeping demands into actual rules for taxpayers.
The new regulations, which kick in at the start of 2012, require any taxpayer with business income to issue 1099 forms to all vendors from whom they purchased more than $600 of goods and services that year. That promises to launch a fusillade of new paperwork: An estimated 40 million taxpayers will be subject to the requirement, including 26 million who run sole proprietorships.
The new reporting burden, particularly as it falls on small businesses, may turn out to be disproportionate as compared with any resulting improvement in tax compliance.

Nancy Polosi, “We have to pass the bill to find out what’s in the bill”.

[Pretzelogik]

Originally Posted by roots'nbulbs

Maybe someone enjoys the freedom to "go broke," or better yet, watch someone else struggle ??? That's a great freedom!
...how do you spell 'schadenfreud???'

Gimee Gimee Gimee.....somebody has to pay for this all

[Dangerous Dave]

Yes Pretzel, it's much preferable to go broke and watch someone else struggle while being broke yourself. Democrats want to be judged by their intentions... their outcomes are generally worse than if they had done nothing.

[roots'nbulbs]

The issue is complex which is why I was tentacle-ing, earlier, for specific information on the new health care legislation. I, too, fear the expense. And, I also wonder about the standard of living for the middle class if the lower class rises.

But, look at individuals, private business and tax foundations. Stagnant money is not only a moral issue, it's poor economics.

And, by the way, my thick hide was created, first, by perpetrators who would have you think that my hesitation to chop down the proverbial tree without thinking and looking around for a sharper ax, was....naive. Yeh, right. Where are they, now? In a treeless orchard, usually.

[Dangerous Dave]

Well Roots, the issue is complex, and I'm not sure it can be solved by adding more complexity to it. It only makes it more costly. indeed, it's government involvement into our healthcare over the last few decades that have made the cost unbearable. So what does congress do? In their eternal wisdom, they appoint themselves the experts that should be the ones to fix what they originally messed up. I'm not some anarchy-supporting whacko, but in cases like this it is easy to see where less government... especially government that is distant from the people... is a good thing.


Now, I know this will garner extremist responses from those who think otherwise, that I'm some sort of loon that doesn't want poor kids to go to school and starve poor people. These are straw man arguments where the opposition takes what sensible people say and twist it to make them look extreme while they are the extremists.