Nye County (Las Vegas, Henderson, Pahrump: calculated, minimum wage, to live in)

[janellen]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

Always remember it was the State of Nevada who did it to Pahrump and lots of other places. They also killed the spring in Las Vegas on purpose. Probably all dead now but we should go off and lynch a couple of State Engineers if any of the old ones are still alive.

The problem is western water law rubbed off against the libertarian bent of Nevada. In a number of places like Pahrump (and Las Vegas) the state granted water rights that far exceeded the available water and made no provision for the individual with a property to provide water to his family and property.

In Las Vegas they actually deliberately lowered the water table to kill the springs and what they considered the non productive plants that lived along the creek. Called them "water wasters".

And the problem could be fixed...but Nevada would have to admit that they screwed up and revoke the water rights that should not have been granted. But they won't because they know they established a property right when the rights were granted and if they revoke them they will be sued and lose.

So we simply let Pahrump and elsewhere crash so we don't have to use state tax money to fix it.

Kinda of ironic in Pahrump if you know a bit about Pahrump.

Could you explain the bold a little more because I only know a little bit about Pahrump, but I'm interested in the area and I'd like to know what you mean here. Thanks.

[lvmensch]

There are thousands and thousands of acre feet of water rights that should never have been issued. The can be very valuable...in Las Vegas they can run $25,000 or more. And they are reasoably common - the casinos tend to all have holdings and the Water District and SNWA own vast numbers. Even some of the older neighborhoods like Palomino Circle own some which they use to get their landscaping water without having to pay LVVWD. The overpumping is not bad in LV as the SNWA has vast holdings which they do not pump. They do however have a deal where they get an equivalent credit as if they had stored that much water in the aquifer. Not sure it is legal but we will never know until they try and pump it which could only happen if Something interfered with the NV rights to Colorado River water.

The problem in Pahrump is actually worse. Vast quantities of water were pumped for cotton farming years ago and led to a heavily over subscribed aquifer. When you buy a home in Pahrump you get a warning that that you need to drill your well much deeper than the present water level...that being because the water level in Pahrump was dropping close to two feet a year and could get worse with any significant increase in population.

And if the state makes any allowance for the domestic well it gets worse. Domestic wells are not in the same system as the commercial or agricultural ones. Anyone who does not have a source of domestic water available has a right to drill one and pump up to two acre feet...though domestic wells are not metered. The State Engineer has been trying to put a priority date on domestic wells for years but cannot get it past the legislature where the rurals manage to head it off.

So to fix it would be millions and millions of dollars as the state has to buy out these water rights.

Pahrump is famous for being libertarian and small government oriented. In my opinion they suffer a bit from it. For instance they will not incorporate so Pahrumps ends up being run out of Tonopah which makes no sense at all. And it is that failure to govern that creates the Pahrump water problem...not done by Pahrump but they would be sympathic to the government not regulating the use of well water.

[janellen]

Oh wow! Reps to you for the valuable info. Well I guess when the water dries up, then that's all she wrote for Pahrump. I remember years ago when Art Bell would be talking about Pahrump, he claimed that it had one of the largest aquifers in the state and that it would be good for 100 years. Yeah well that's what they said about the San Joaquin Valley too, but up until this year's drought breaking rain, we had 600 dry wells in my area.....some of them 700 ft deep.

When I've driven around Pahrump I've seen lots of grass yards and nondesert plants......naughty, naughty.

[cre8lite]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

Pahrump is famous for being libertarian and small government oriented. In my opinion they suffer a bit from it. For instance they will not incorporate so Pahrumps ends up being run out of Tonopah which makes no sense at all. And it is that failure to govern that creates the Pahrump water problem...not done by Pahrump but they would be sympathic to the government not regulating the use of well water.

let's set a few things straight - yes, we refuse to incorporate. there are many different reasons for it, but realistically it just does not make financial sense at this time. we are a small-ish town, with limited resources for income. adding another layer of government doesn't make sense. we wouldn't be eliminating anything we currently have, just adding to it AND the existing services would have to be shared (cops, fire, judges, admin staff) between town & city. at this point, it just doesn't make sense.

no, pahrump is NOT run from tonopah. if anything, it's the other way around. yes the county seat is in tonopah. the population is in pahrump. 99% of the new ordinances are written for pahrump. 99% of the new businesses that look to nye county, come to pahrump. 4 out of the 5 commissioners are from pahrump.

yes, in the past water rights were given away like candy - many times the same water rights were "sold" for the same piece of ground. majority (not all) of those individuals have gone to jail for their participation.

[cre8lite]

Originally Posted by lvmensch

The problem in Pahrump is actually worse. Vast quantities of water were pumped for cotton farming years ago and led to a heavily over subscribed aquifer. When you buy a home in Pahrump you get a warning that that you need to drill your well much deeper than the present water level...that being because the water level in Pahrump was dropping close to two feet a year and could get worse with any significant increase in population.

can you show me science about our aquifer being over subscribed? no one here in town has been able to & i've been asking for years. i'd love to see it.

and lastly - that bit about drilling my well much deeper? maybe in the past, but it does not happen today.

[cre8lite]

Originally Posted by janellen

I remember years ago when Art Bell would be talking about Pahrump, he claimed that it had one of the largest aquifers in the state and that it would be good for 100 years.

this is remnants of the past, when pahrump was trying to sweeten the pot for everyone to come out. some body saw a chance to get rich & took it.

imagine this scenario: i'll tell you we have the largest aquifer, you'll buy this piece of land with x amount of water rights. right after you leave my office, i'll sell the exact same piece of land, with the exact same water rights to the next person who comes into my office. some of the masterminds went to jail for this scheme, while the buyers were left holding paperwork of no value.

pahrump has been trying to kybosh that "we have the largest aquifer" rumor for a few years now.

[cre8lite]

my employer sent me to tonopah this week, it's been a while since i've been there & not a whole lot has changed. time seems to stand still in tonopah & i get the feeling no one is ever in a rush.

i stayed at the mizpah, my 2nd time staying there. my room rate was $90/night, which was a corporate rate. this time the room was much smaller than before, still dang cute & very authentic. my back is squished up against the main door to get the pictures the door in the opposite corner is the bathroom - holy sheemolies was that thing clausterphobic!! functional, but smaller than my pantry at home!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/

to the right was a small 2 drawer dresser, a tv hanging on the wall & a closet which was good sized, but smaller than the bathroom. the view from my windows:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/

yep, that's main street below the balcony. the building across the street has been many things in it's lifetime - soda fountain shop; dr office; sandwich shop; turquoise jewelry shop & currently a quilt/craft store.

just outside my door were some historical markers i guess you could call them. the lightening thru out the hotel is authentic, which translates to.....there ain't much there, so trying to get a good picture of these things without a glare from the flash or outside winow lighting was a challenge

https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/


the elevator in the hotel still works. it's not fast, but it still does it's duty. i don't think i noticed this "certificate" the last time i was here, obviously it doesn't go with the hotel but still an interesting artifact

https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/


the mizpah is owned by fred & nancy cline, who are vintners from northern california (Home | Cline Cellars in Sonoma, Ca.). nancy's family used to live in tonopah so it only made sense for her to purchase it. they have brought many jobs to town & they are always thinking of new ways to help promote more jobs. so far they have the hotel, the restaurant inside the hotel, the casino next door to the hotel, the brewery/eatery across the street from the hotel & their latest development is behind the hotel

https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/104366...in/dateposted/

the stone building was the 1st ever built in tonpah (1902) & in it's previous life was a brewery & then an alcohol storage facility. the cline family has built on the tan addition to the left of it. when i spoke to the construction guy on site, he is guesstimating it will be done june/july area. what is it? it will be a hostel, with ~10 beds

Hostel taking shape in downtown Tonopah | PV Times

[janellen]

I wish they'd renovate and open up the old Goldfield Hotel. It must have been magnificent in its day.

[lvmensch]

Originally Posted by cre8lite

can you show me science about our aquifer being over subscribed? no one here in town has been able to & i've been asking for years. i'd love to see it.

and lastly - that bit about drilling my well much deeper? maybe in the past, but it does not happen today.

You got me doubting it cre8lite. Could not find it in the Nye County disclosure at GLVAR. But here it is...

*****************************
20.50.040 GROUNDWATER CONDITIONS Before the purchaser of a structure, lot, or parcel within the Pahrump Regional Planning District signs a sales agreement, the seller shall, by separate written document, disclose to the purchaser information on the general groundwater conditions. The written document must contain 'a statement with the following language:

Pahrump Valley is in an overdraft situation, that is, the quantity of groundwater pumped front the basin each. year is greater than the natural replenishment. As a consequence, the water table is dropping at a rate of about one foot per year under most of the basin. Ifa domestic well is to be drilled, the owner should consider drilling to at least 100 feet or more below the top of the water table at their specific location. This will allow the well owner several decades of service before they have to deepen or replace their domestic well. Your well driller should know how deep the water table is under your land. If not, the Nevadu Division of Water Resources in Las Vegas should be able to provide you with the information.
******************************
http://www.nyecounty.net/DocumentCenter/Home/View/3077

Now maybe this never went into effect or has been discontinued...so you might want to check the statutes and see if it is still there.

But this is what I was referring to...

If you want an official statement on over drafting the aquifer get hold of the State Engineer's Las Vegas office...they should tell you where to find it in writing.

And what I think about Pahrump is heavily influenced by a conversation years ago with a Nye County Commissioner from Pahrump where we discussed the place over lunch. A Japanese gentleman of all odd things. He was of the view that Pahrump should incorporate but would not.

[cre8lite]

lvmensch - someday i'm sure we will incorporate, but it's just not in the cards quite yet for us & i shall look into that agenda item to see if it passed or not.

janellen - o man, to see the goldfield hotel open? that WOULD be a delight!!