Death Penalty in Nevada (retire, teacher, rain)

[fishmonger]

Originally Posted by Yeledaf

No, but if you hum a few bars, I can fake it.

I'm not your DAAAMN monkey!

Just kidding, actually I am!

But when, in your opinion, does the fertilized egg cell become a person?

[burdell]

Originally Posted by Yeledaf

When it suits you. Like everyone else.

Anything to back that up or just more of your whining?

And "like everyone else" would by definition include you, eh?

[Yeledaf]

Originally Posted by fishmonger

I'm not your DAAAMN monkey!

Just kidding.

But when, in your opinion, does the fertilized egg cell become a person?

What do you think? Just before delivery? If it moves, is it a person? Who knows when dreams begin? Or desires? Or feelings?

I do know that my children are connected to me in some mysterious way that has outlived nearly every other feeling I have, and that that connection began before they were born.

If you have kids, don't you feel like that?

[fishmonger]

I don't have kids, and I already answered the question. Those are indeed some deep and loving words about your kids, but, once again, if you don't believe a fertilized egg cell is a person, then why is a fetus that hasn't developed any working mental capacity or consciousness a person? What's the difference between the two?

[Glitch]

I am completely against the death penalty. Not because I think it is wrong to take another human life, but rather because I will never trust government, any government, well enough to give it the power to execute its own citizens under any circumstances.

[Yeledaf]

Originally Posted by fishmonger

I don't have kids, and I already answered the question. Those are indeed some deep and loving words about your kids, but, once again, if you don't believe a fertilized egg cell is a person, then why is a fetus that hasn't developed any working mental capacity or consciousness a person? What's the difference between the two?

I don't think anyone can define when a fetus has developed "working mental capacity or consciousness as a person". I would prefer, though, that we err on the side of life and confess that we don't know, rather than say "Okay, one month-old. You're toast."

Besides, there are plenty of people with severe mental incapacities, or in comas or vegetative states who fit that description. And few people feel that it's acceptable to just smother or gas them. At least, not since Hitler's day.

[happymom4]

I think it's very easy for a person who has never given birth, to assume a life isn't a life till it's born. I've given birth 4 times and have 4 beautiful children to show for it. These babies mean the world to me. I remember hearing their heartbeat the first time at about 8 weeks. You don't think that's a life?
I used to be pro choice...not sure how I feel about that now but I do know I could not abort a pregnancy. I know people have their reasons and I wouldn't judge. But I couldn't do it.
Abortion of an innocent baby the same as the death penalty of an adult who committed an evil crime the same? I don't even know how one could think such a thing. And I'm about to go way off topic so I'll stop there.

[happymom4]

Originally Posted by fishmonger

Do you believe a fertilized egg cell is a person?

Life begins at conception, when the sperm fertalizes the egg imo...Life is not a condom full of sperm, like someone mentioned sarcastically...those could all be duds anyway.

[fishmonger]

Originally Posted by Yeledaf

I don't think anyone can define when a fetus has developed "working mental capacity or consciousness as a person". I would prefer, though, that we err on the side of life and confess that we don't know, rather than say "Okay, one month-old. You're toast."

Besides, there are plenty of people with severe mental incapacities, or in comas or vegetative states who fit that description. And few people feel that it's acceptable to just smother or gas them. At least, not since Hitler's day.

Well... if you're referring to cases like Terri Schiavo then that should probably be the family's decision. In the case of a coma, there's already memories, emotions, thoughts, dreams in existence in the person's brain, even if they aren't currently active. The person in a coma has already developed the CAPACITY for human consciousness and thought, but it isn't being used because of their state.

I believe the scientific consensus is that the brain hasn't developed to the point of being capable of thought or consciousness by the end of the first trimester. Personally I also believe that we should "err on the side of life" and have abortion illegal throughout all of the "fuzzy grey area," except in cases of extreme danger to the mother, or maybe brain death, things like that, but I don't think anyone who's studied the issue will tell you that a month-old fetus is any more capable of thought or feeling than a fertilized egg cell.

One big problem I have with the idea of outlawing early-term abortions is that abortions would still happen, just without regulation. Women would do it themselves, or go to quack doctors, without those pesky regulations about not having an abortion after a certain point in the pregnancy has passed. Late-term abortions right now are rare. If abortion was made illegal they wouldn't be.

[Yeledaf]

Originally Posted by fishmonger

Well... if you're referring to cases like Terri Schiavo then that should probably be the family's decision. In the case of a coma, there's already memories, emotions, thoughts, dreams in existence in the person's brain, even if they aren't currently active. The person in a coma has already developed the CAPACITY for human consciousness and thought, but it isn't being used because of their state.

I believe the scientific consensus is that the brain hasn't developed to the point of being capable of thought or consciousness by the end of the first trimester. Personally I also believe that we should "err on the side of life" and have abortion illegal throughout all of the "fuzzy grey area," except in cases of extreme danger to the mother, or maybe brain death, things like that, but I don't think anyone who's studied the issue will tell you that a month-old fetus is any more capable of thought or feeling than a fertilized egg cell.

Hey, studies are important. But they're not defnitive, ever, when it comes to life. Tell you what: when we get to where we can create it in the old lab, a la Peter Boyle puttin on the Ritz, I'll pay more attention...