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Old 02-28-2011, 11:48 AM
 
1,337 posts, read 959,251 times
Reputation: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
All of "those" items do not support the energy needs of a small manufacturing plant or even a good sized communications switch.

As far as I am concerned the demand for non fossil power exceeds the individual rights of any and all the objectors. The society, economy and the country need the electric power at a decent price.
What "small manufacturing plants?" Got an address? Got a name? Who, specifically, is in need of electricity beyond simply saying "there's lots of people out there that need more or cheaper electricity."

You want to make this an issue of "greater" versus the "lessers" interest? Okay, let's do that. You go make a list of all the people who don't have this electricity, and then we'll go compare your list to an opposing list of the people in the state who do have more than ready access to electricity.

If I take the "for the greater good," and argue the way such people normally argue, then it sounds to me like a tiny group of special interest panderers wants to squawk and squeal as loud of they can, puffing themselves up like a puffer fish to make themselves look as big as possible so people their their numbers are more impressive than they really are.

---------------------

If a small manufacturer is concerned about a lack of sufficient electricity, then the burden to rectify should be on them, and not on society writ large. They made the mistake (and it IS a mistake) of being where they are, and the mistake is their burden to bear. They should have made wiser choices in life and rectified their own problem, because it is their own problem. Not your problem, not my problem, not grandmas problem, not Billy Joes problem down the block, much less "everyone else's" problem.

** If you move in right next to an airport, don't be complaining about the noise such that you expect society to solve your problem.

** If you move right next to an Interstate that has been there for 30 years, don't complain about the noise and expect everyone else in society to solve your problem.

** If you are a giant or moderate sized business who unwisely decides to move to an area with insufficient infrastructure, be it a road that can't handle that businesses traffic, or where there is either none, scant or insufficiently cheap electricity, the mistake was yours to make and you should bear the burden of your poor life choices, not your neighbors, not grandma down the street whos house you want to try to snatch via eminent domain, or simply try to force an easement on Grandmas property. Go solve your own problems. You caused them, you must rectify them.

-------------------

Having said that, here comes the "but since many in society wants convenient access to tacos and a hamburger and [insert any other business product here] that should be sufficient justification that some liberties can be abridged if it will bring tasty tacos, hamburgers, or [whatever other consumer product or service] to the public-at-large.

The argument often superficially "sounds good" to some people when we use words like "manufacturing," because it conjures up illusions of some giant Pennsylvania steel mill engaged in production of goods vital to the "national security of the United States" rarrr rarrr rarrr.... but when you phrase it in terms of much more common business that are far more likely to exist, which is tacos (okay, there's actually very few Taco Bells in NH, slightly beside the point), hamburgers, Pier One imports, and other quite common consumer goods, it becomes a little more clear what we are asking people to do.

Where's the bright line demarcation between one liberty abridgment and another in your mind(s) that we "innocently" take away and consider a "mere acceptable sacrifice and trade-off"?

If you can justify taking away one specific kind of liberty in the pursuit of bringing the public hamburgers, tacos, manufacturing goods, "local jobs," etc.... then where is the bright line that delineates where that pursuit to make people sacrifice ends? Why should we not likewise use that very same argument once again in a different circumstance, claiming "the public wants X, Y, Z goods or services" such that we shall ask them to suffer yet another kind of liberty abridgment, and then perhaps another, and then another.

Last edited by FreedomThroughAnarchism; 02-28-2011 at 12:17 PM..
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Old 03-01-2011, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
40,086 posts, read 43,516,829 times
Reputation: 23189
Simply put the transmission line will provide power for the production of goods the increase socital wealth by productive work. The view ponly provides recreation for a few. Work trumps play as it should. Every Yankee knows that in their bones.
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Old 03-05-2011, 09:42 AM
 
155 posts, read 238,574 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
As far as I am concerned the demand for non fossil power exceeds the individual rights of any and all the objectors. The society, economy and the country need the electric power at a decent price. Changing the scenic view of some billionaire is a very small price to pay for the benefit of everyone else. NIMBY's are a PIA that should be ignored.
Oh, Greg; I just love it when you openly and unabashedly advocate full-on, outright Communism. To heck with anybody's property rights, eh? Class warfare uber alles. Just run right out and violate the Takings Clause. It all belongs to the government anyway, right? Everything else is just a convenient fiction to keep the serfs mollified.

We need plenty of energy. We have yet to resolve many inefficiencies. We have yet to address existing methods foolishly undeveloped. New methods remain to be discovered, plumbed, and developed. None of that requires violation of people's property rights. None of that requires rent-seeking from government. You might consider reading The Myth of the Robber Barons by Burton Folsom. James J Hill showed the way.
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Old 03-05-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Northern Mexico SOCAL
85 posts, read 101,673 times
Reputation: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by lreznick View Post
Oh, Greg; I just love it when you openly and unabashedly advocate full-on, outright Communism. To heck with anybody's property rights, eh? Class warfare uber alles. Just run right out and violate the Takings Clause. It all belongs to the government anyway, right? Everything else is just a convenient fiction to keep the serfs mollified.

We need plenty of energy. We have yet to resolve many inefficiencies. We have yet to address existing methods foolishly undeveloped. New methods remain to be discovered, plumbed, and developed. None of that requires violation of people's property rights. None of that requires rent-seeking from government. You might consider reading The Myth of the Robber Barons by Burton Folsom. James J Hill showed the way.
That is a good book...and nothing has changed.
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:03 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
40,086 posts, read 43,516,829 times
Reputation: 23189
I believe there are some industries that are natural monopolies that should be owned and operated by the government in order to provide maximum service to most people regardless of the need for profit or return on investment. Electric utilities, including transmission lines, are one of these industries.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:55 AM
 
1,384 posts, read 3,687,334 times
Reputation: 1505
American Thinker: UN Agenda 21 - Coming to a Neighborhood near You

25x'25 - Home

http://www.cnht.org/news/2010/04/12/...-local-mayors/

Last edited by lisa g; 03-07-2011 at 08:07 AM..
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Old 03-08-2011, 03:38 PM
 
19,126 posts, read 18,675,496 times
Reputation: 7268
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I believe there are some industries that are natural monopolies that should be owned and operated by the government in order to provide maximum service to most people regardless of the need for profit or return on investment. Electric utilities, including transmission lines, are one of these industries.

Looking to live yer elderly life style in a brown out eh? Me too, I always liked the low light level in bars as women looked better.

I am just finding out AC is men and nasty, it as bad or worse than cars. Why I don't know is I never had AC.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:07 AM
 
3,034 posts, read 7,116,314 times
Reputation: 1692
we had/have transmission lines already in place from Quebec Hydro. Once upon a time we purchased electricity from them. However, they got money hungry and jacked the rates to where it was unaffordable and the state dropped them. The route already exists from the previous project built in the eighties. Came from James Bay, Canada down thru NH to Sand Pond or Sandy Pond in MA. A huge switching station was built at the Comerford Dam in Monroe NH and has subsequently been torn down.

Why would it be any different now?


Have to laugh at the people that object because of the view. I'm not so impressed with shacks and junk cars...
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:23 PM
 
19,126 posts, read 18,675,496 times
Reputation: 7268
The view I was worried about was Franconia Notch and Crawfords. I don't care if the lines ruin some guy's back yard with a house worth 5 million bucks a bit.
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Old 03-11-2011, 05:21 PM
 
Location: live free or fry.org
215 posts, read 469,927 times
Reputation: 320
Mac,
I don't have a 5 million $ anything. What really tics me off is the fact a foreign company can and will take your property if they deem it necessary to cross your property. To me this is an invasion by a foreign entity. Myself and a lot of the people here will fight this as if it is an invasion. The view thing to me is secondary. It's the de-valuation of something that I've worked my whole life to attain only to be ruined by a foreign corporation that's owned by the province of Quebec.
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