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Old 11-06-2011, 04:19 PM
 
155 posts, read 163,759 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck naked View Post
New Hampshire Tax Rates | NH Town Property Taxes

I'm not sure what you're looking at - but Derry's tax rate was $27.88 per 1K assessed value in 2010. That's $2,788 on a $100K home. The average home in Derry is around $300K- so taxes would be $8,364. for a moderate home on an acre or less.
I'm positive what you're looking at: the Feb 2010 report on the 2009 tax numbers. Joe Shimkus's numbers come from the Feb 2010 report and he has not updated them.

I wrote that I was quoting from the Dec 2010 report on the 2010 tax numbers. If you want to see the same numbers, the report is at 2010 Property Tax Rates & Related Data | Municipal Services Division | NH Department of Revenue Administration (http://www.nh.gov/revenue/munc_prop/2010PropertyTaxRatesRelatedData.htm - broken link)

Thus, as of Dec 2010, Derry's rate was 2.848%, which is what you get when you divide 28.48/1000, which is another way of looking at moving the decimal point to the left 3 places. You can quote any price you want, but 2.848% is still not 4%.

Now, if you want to buy a $300k house and don't know that 2.848% tax would amount to $8,544 and, thus, require saving, say, $712/month to be able to pay the tax, you may need to think more clearly about buying a $300k house.
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Old 11-06-2011, 04:32 PM
 
155 posts, read 163,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovedfromFL View Post
Ok, so minimal government spending.

So what should NH cut to get government spending down even lower?

Senior programs? Senior transportation? Education? Road plowing? Medicaid? Homes for the disabled? Libraries?

I read about recent Medicaid cuts in the NH state budget which resulted in the immediate layoff of over 100 workers at one of the large hospitals.

So would someone please explain what exactly you think NH should and should not provide?

What kind of cuts are ok, given the fact that budget pressures for most states will continue to get worse?
You're joking? Every one of those can be cut and supplied better by the market without government intervention. None of this is new, all of this has been written about extensively, but maybe you didn't think about it or read any of it.

For example, some people seem to think that Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid make up individually or together the so-called 3rd rail. Take Medicaid. Try this from back in 2006: Free Market Medicine by James W. Brook. Or maybe this from 2009: The American Spectator : Medicare for All Is a Killer.

Budgeting pressures get worse for states because they keep doing things that governments aren't supposed to do.
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Old 11-07-2011, 09:12 AM
 
155 posts, read 163,759 times
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The 2011 property tax rates are out now, dated Nov 2, 2011: 2011 Property Tax Rates & Related Data | Municipal Services Division | NH Department of Revenue Administration (http://www.nh.gov/revenue/munc_prop/2011PropertyTaxRatesRelatedData.htm - broken link). The most expensive are 2.930% (Allentown), 2.715% (Bow), 3.318% (Claremont), 2.727% (Derry), 2.727% (Fremont), 3.000% (Henniker), 2.754% (Hopkinton), 3.082% (Keene), 2.860% (Lisbon), 2.734% (Peterborough), and 3.066% (Pittsfield).

Still none anywhere near 4%. Four crossed the 3% line. In 2010's report, Berlin was over 3% but this 2011 report doesn't list Berlin. Curious. Claremont is the highest listed, going from 3.134% to 3.318%. Henniker was at 2.982% but now at 3.000%. Keene went from 3.017% to 3.082%. Pittsfield stayed the same.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:22 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,756,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lreznick View Post
The 2011 property tax rates are out now, dated Nov 2, 2011: 2011 Property Tax Rates & Related Data | Municipal Services Division | NH Department of Revenue Administration (http://www.nh.gov/revenue/munc_prop/2011PropertyTaxRatesRelatedData.htm - broken link). The most expensive are 2.930% (Allentown), 2.715% (Bow), 3.318% (Claremont), 2.727% (Derry), 2.727% (Fremont), 3.000% (Henniker), 2.754% (Hopkinton), 3.082% (Keene), 2.860% (Lisbon), 2.734% (Peterborough), and 3.066% (Pittsfield).

Still none anywhere near 4%. Four crossed the 3% line. In 2010's report, Berlin was over 3% but this 2011 report doesn't list Berlin. Curious. Claremont is the highest listed, going from 3.134% to 3.318%. Henniker was at 2.982% but now at 3.000%. Keene went from 3.017% to 3.082%. Pittsfield stayed the same.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The tax rates really don't reflect (very accurately) what people are actually paying for property tax. The other key word is "assessment". For a single data point, my house was assessed at about $300K more than I could sell it for, even though the town policy was "100% assessment" (of its selling value). I fought the town, and the assessor said "Yes, there are many houses in this town in the same situation". So that is the same as saying "Hey, we are ripping all of them off, so we can rip you off too". I ended up moving. I won't say the town name, but it is in very southern NH, and its name starts with 'W'.
So to sum it up, the tax rates you state are not accurate for what many people actually pay, as the assessments can offset those numbers by a very significant amount. My effective rate was 4.5%, in a town that lists its rate (based on your document) as 2.308%

Let's get some other math/engineering majors in on this thread
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:29 AM
 
2,990 posts, read 5,024,518 times
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that was exactly my point supersparkle - TY for clarifying...


My home wasn't valued at $300K+ when I purchased it....duh. It was valued at $69K. Within a few years, the taxes jumped from $700 annually to $10K annually. The same home would have a current value of $150K up north. The increase in value came so quickly because of the influx of MA into the southern tier of NH. Derry, Londonderry, Windham, Salem and a few other border towns became bedroom communities of Boston.


As pointed out, the assessed values don't always match market values. My son purchased a home for $160k in 2010 in a town with a fairly low tax rate. The town assessed the property at $270K to match their adjoining property records.
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
105 posts, read 137,869 times
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We're in the process of closing next week and found out that the tax rate went up drastically while the assessed value of the property stayed the same. Our taxes have gone up $2500+ which is bothering me to no ends right now. I'm going to see if we can get the assessed value decreased base upon the appraisal and sales price.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Central FL
1,383 posts, read 1,923,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lreznick View Post
You're joking? Every one of those can be cut and supplied better by the market without government intervention. None of this is new, all of this has been written about extensively, but maybe you didn't think about it or read any of it.

For example, some people seem to think that Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid make up individually or together the so-called 3rd rail. Take Medicaid. Try this from back in 2006: Free Market Medicine by James W. Brook. Or maybe this from 2009: The American Spectator : Medicare for All Is a Killer.

Budgeting pressures get worse for states because they keep doing things that governments aren't supposed to do.
What is "the market"? Do you mean privatizing the services? Or maybe you mean just letting charities provide services and if they don't, then too bad.

Turning services over to the private sector means you have to pay enough to give them a profit. What they do is carve the profit right out of the employee pay. So you might end up with an even lower quality employee and higher turnover. That leads to lower outcomes in terms of service quality.

I'm not talking about SS or Medicare. I'm talking about services that are provided by the state. I get the feeling that many in NH would have the state provide zero services. Sure, it sounds good in theory, but the reality could be less than desirable. Everyone wants to cut services, until you cut one that THEY use.
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Old 11-10-2011, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Southern NH
2,094 posts, read 2,792,127 times
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Just got my tax bill for the second half of 2011. The rate went up, but the assessment went down. My taxes dropped by $500 or so...
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Old 11-13-2011, 04:12 PM
 
155 posts, read 163,759 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

The tax rates really don't reflect (very accurately) what people are actually paying for property tax. The other key word is "assessment". For a single data point, my house was assessed at about $300K more than I could sell it for, even though the town policy was "100% assessment" (of its selling value). I fought the town, and the assessor said "Yes, there are many houses in this town in the same situation". So that is the same as saying "Hey, we are ripping all of them off, so we can rip you off too". I ended up moving. I won't say the town name, but it is in very southern NH, and its name starts with 'W'.
So to sum it up, the tax rates you state are not accurate for what many people actually pay, as the assessments can offset those numbers by a very significant amount. My effective rate was 4.5%, in a town that lists its rate (based on your document) as 2.308%

Let's get some other math/engineering majors in on this thread
It seems to me that the solution is in your support of the municipal & other government representatives. If they are not assessing the properties appropriately, you and all the others in your community have to do something about it. Are they not elected representatives or appointed by elected reps? Certainly the ultimate "do something" is to move away in loud protest, reminding them that their practices are reducing their tax base. What are you doing about it, other than writing about it here? What are you doing about the expenditures they're continuing that cause them to believe they need to increase the taxes?

As for an "effective rate" -- your 4.5% based on what? Your purchase price? What a real estate agent told you your property is worth? If the tax they charged was the percentage of the assessed value, their tables were accurate. If your assessed value is wrong, even if equally skewed, they still did what they said they were going to do. That doesn't stop the legitimate dispute you have about the assessment.
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Old 11-13-2011, 04:25 PM
 
155 posts, read 163,759 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by buck naked View Post
that was exactly my point supersparkle - TY for clarifying...


My home wasn't valued at $300K+ when I purchased it....duh. It was valued at $69K. Within a few years, the taxes jumped from $700 annually to $10K annually. The same home would have a current value of $150K up north. The increase in value came so quickly because of the influx of MA into the southern tier of NH. Derry, Londonderry, Windham, Salem and a few other border towns became bedroom communities of Boston.
Prices fluctuate. Did the assessed value actually go up such that those taxes represented the accurate percentage against the assessed value? Influx of buyers from anywhere who pay a lot for neighboring houses of equivalent type and location to yours will raise the neighborhood's values. That's a market increase. It is not inflation, although it might be a speculative bubble.

Could you have sold the house at that time for that assessed amount? (If you wanted to sell the house then and had sold the house for that amount would you have been happy with that amount?) If the assessment doesn't correspond with the market price at the time what do you do about it? Are there multiple assessment firms all agreeing or does the assessment firm have a government monopoly? (Yes, "government monopoly" is redundant.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by buck naked View Post
As pointed out, the assessed values don't always match market values. My son purchased a home for $160k in 2010 in a town with a fairly low tax rate. The town assessed the property at $270K to match their adjoining property records.
Every time an assessed value is way out of kilter with a reasonable, defensible market value, someone had better have good reasons for the assessed value. If your house is increased because of your neighbors' houses yet yours is not comparable to your neighbors, there should be some way to identify the problems with the assessment. Why are you not addressing this with the taxing authorities? Maybe courts need to be brought in? There must be ways to deal with this.
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