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Old 10-26-2011, 01:07 PM
Status: "3 weeks and counting!" (set 2 hours ago)
 
Location: Barren Treeless Prairie, ND
678 posts, read 732,314 times
Reputation: 762
I'm throwing in the BS flag here about the schools. You really think that only people with kids should pay for the school? Is that realistic? Is that good overall in the long run for society? For those who can't afford the costs, I guess their kids shouldn't get an education? How much is that going to cost society in the long run? It's "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

If you come from a meager background, how would you have been educated if your parent(s) couldn't afford it? I know my family couldn't have afforded private-school type costs. Oh yeah, I guess the answer is "your parents decided to have you, so it's up to them to figure it out and shoulder the burden". BS

You can whine and moan about the public school systems as much as you want, but the fact is that any country that's worth a darn provides an education for their residents. They provide our economy a return on investment (in the majority of cases) and is the foundation of our modern economy and way of life. These kids are the ones who will take care of us in old age. Don't you want them educated to a certain level? Without the ability for everyone to go to school, we'd be like Afghanistan where a lot of kids don't go to school. Turned out real well for them, didn't it?

I say educating our next generation is worth it. I'm glad NH is known to be fiscally frugal, but this is nuts. Education is worth everyone paying for, whether you have kids or not. Now how much to pay is another question altogether.

Perhaps those that are really opposed to it could move to an unincorporated area that bans children. That place would be a real hoot.

I'm no communist, but this discussion makes me ill. Let the flames begin...
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Old 10-26-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: at the end of a dirt road
2,980 posts, read 1,486,209 times
Reputation: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
4). According to the (far-left) HSLDA (Home Schooling Legal Defense Association), they claim that home-schooled children perform better on SAT and other standard tests, at a cost of only about 10% of a public school. If that is true, then those parents that do not home-school are doing a great disservice to to both their children, and to the community. First, lower-performing students, and second, a waste of taxpayers' money.
And if the response to this observation is "We don't have time", or "We don't know how", well, then you should have thought of that in the first place.
Are you including the parents who would teach their kids that Paul Revere rode to Lexington and Concord NH to warn the British that the Colonials were armed? Seriously, not to turn this into a thread about home schooling, but another explanation is that parents who home school have self selected and are better at it that those who do not.

I never had children but I feel strongly that an educated populace is vital to society and I am more than willing to pay for it - as I do through the nose in two states. It seems to me that if you think that a child's education should be 100 % financed by the parents of that child, this takes us back to the Middle Ages, when smart kids with poor parents ended up turning to the church and becoming priests for the education. I'm all for Live Free or Die but turning back the clock THAT far is too much for me.
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Old 10-26-2011, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Northern Mexico SOCAL
82 posts, read 64,056 times
Reputation: 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveusaf View Post
...Let the flames begin...
You seem to be the only one "flaming" about this.

So, all I am going to say on the subject in this thread is that, IMHO, our current model of educating children is at best, parochial. Parents need to catch up with the fact that the modern world is available online at an ever decreasing cost, and that their grandkids will be doing the bulk of their learning via the web. Therefore, it is past time for us to bury the industrial revolution’s education model of teaching children to worship the state as God, to obey authority without question, to labor in the workforce as a serf and to quietly pay their taxes all while saving the world from themselves; instead, say goodbye to the deteriorating infrastructures and so long to unfair and punitive (to those who don’t have children) school taxes; and say Hello future...'Cause, Winter is coming and there ain't a damn thing you can do to stop it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:13 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 2,536,878 times
Reputation: 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
Are you including the parents who would teach their kids that Paul Revere rode to Lexington and Concord NH to warn the British that the Colonials were armed? Seriously, not to turn this into a thread about home schooling, but another explanation is that parents who home school have self selected and are better at it that those who do not.

I never had children but I feel strongly that an educated populace is vital to society and I am more than willing to pay for it - as I do through the nose in two states. It seems to me that if you think that a child's education should be 100 % financed by the parents of that child, this takes us back to the Middle Ages, when smart kids with poor parents ended up turning to the church and becoming priests for the education. I'm all for Live Free or Die but turning back the clock THAT far is too much for me.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met many home-schooler parents that I would not have them teach my dog.
Well, first of all, Paul Revere didn't make it very far in his attempt to warn against the British. Most of the credit goes to William Dawes and Dr. Samuel Prescott. And he didn't ride to warn the British that the Colonials were armed; he rode to tell Samuel Adams and John Hancock that the British were coming to arrest them. (you learn that in about 3rd grade)

I would like to see how well home-schooling parents can teach AP math, AP physics and AP chemistry. I wonder how their qualifications and skill sets determine how they feel that they are 'better at it'.

I agree that an educated populace is critical to a society. I am glad that you are more than willing to pay for it. Feel free to do so. You should donate most of your income to such a cause. And I pay through the nose in three states (NH, MA, NY). I came from very meager means, and thus had to work hard to have enough money to get through school... yet my siblings and I all ended up successful; MD/PhD's and all...

My only summary is that if you want something, go earn it. And if you think we are turning the clock back too far, there are many other places you can go and live where you can think it is more progressive (well socialist/communist).

Also, 'smart kid, poor parents' is BS... I have a gf that grew up in a country with absolutely nothing... and her daughter will start at Harvard next year.
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:27 AM
 
Location: at the end of a dirt road
2,980 posts, read 1,486,209 times
Reputation: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSparkle928 View Post
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I have met many home-schooler parents that I would not have them teach my dog.
Well, first of all, Paul Revere didn't make it very far in his attempt to warn against the British. Most of the credit goes to William Dawes and Dr. Samuel Prescott. And he didn't ride to warn the British that the Colonials were armed; he rode to tell Samuel Adams and John Hancock that the British were coming to arrest them. (you learn that in about 3rd grade)

I would like to see how well home-schooling parents can teach AP math, AP physics and AP chemistry. I wonder how their qualifications and skill sets determine how they feel that they are 'better at it'.

I agree that an educated populace is critical to a society. I am glad that you are more than willing to pay for it. Feel free to do so. You should donate most of your income to such a cause. And I pay through the nose in three states (NH, MA, NY). I came from very meager means, and thus had to work hard to have enough money to get through school... yet my siblings and I all ended up successful; MD/PhD's and all...

My only summary is that if you want something, go earn it. And if you think we are turning the clock back too far, there are many other places you can go and live where you can think it is more progressive (well socialist/communist).

Also, 'smart kid, poor parents' is BS... I have a gf that grew up in a country with absolutely nothing... and her daughter will start at Harvard next year.
SS I'm not sure you got my joke about Paul Revere. My snarky remark was a reference to two prominent politicians who presented an accounting of the events leading up to the American revolution that were news to a lot of us in New England.

Well let's see I grew up the child of a single mother. My father skipped out and this was before it was possible to do very much about deadbeat dads. It was all she could do to put a roof over our heads and food on the table. So if you want to talk meager means, I've been there and done that. According to your view, I should have ended up a waitress I guess, since she could not have afforded to pay for my schooling and was too tired to do much else when she got home.

As it was, I got a PhD and would feel utterly at home teaching the AP math, chemistry and physics since that happens to be my area.

How exactly is the "smart kid poor parent thing" "BS?" If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting in all seriousness that poor children in the US should not have access to even the most basic education unless their parents provide it either directly by home schooling or indirectly by paying for it. How many generations do you think it would take before we as a country deteroriated completely back to an agrarian society? Where do you propose that future scientists and engineers - the ones who are capable of coming up with concepts that translate into high value added products - are going to come from if only the wealthy are able to educate their chldren?
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Old 10-27-2011, 06:57 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 2,536,878 times
Reputation: 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveusaf View Post
I'm throwing in the BS flag here about the schools. You really think that only people with kids should pay for the school? Is that realistic? Is that good overall in the long run for society? For those who can't afford the costs, I guess their kids shouldn't get an education? How much is that going to cost society in the long run? It's "cutting off your nose to spite your face".

If you come from a meager background, how would you have been educated if your parent(s) couldn't afford it? I know my family couldn't have afforded private-school type costs. Oh yeah, I guess the answer is "your parents decided to have you, so it's up to them to figure it out and shoulder the burden". BS

You can whine and moan about the public school systems as much as you want, but the fact is that any country that's worth a darn provides an education for their residents. They provide our economy a return on investment (in the majority of cases) and is the foundation of our modern economy and way of life. These kids are the ones who will take care of us in old age. Don't you want them educated to a certain level? Without the ability for everyone to go to school, we'd be like Afghanistan where a lot of kids don't go to school. Turned out real well for them, didn't it?

I say educating our next generation is worth it. I'm glad NH is known to be fiscally frugal, but this is nuts. Education is worth everyone paying for, whether you have kids or not. Now how much to pay is another question altogether.

Perhaps those that are really opposed to it could move to an unincorporated area that bans children. That place would be a real hoot.

I'm no communist, but this discussion makes me ill. Let the flames begin...
No flames here.... just a good chuckle about a very mis-guided individual.

1). “You really think that only people with kids should pay for the school?”
Yes

2). “Is that realistic?”
Yes

3). “Is that good overall in the long run for society?”
No. But neither is the illegal alien problem, nor the reckless population explosion.

4). “For those who can't afford the costs, I guess their kids shouldn't get an education?”
If I can’t afford my house/car/food/medical care, can I sponge off you to pay for it all?

5). The Afghanistan statement is entirely non sequitur.

6). “Oh yeah, I guess the answer is "your parents decided to have you, so it's up to them to figure it out and shoulder the burden". BS”
It is my responsibility (and major debt burden) that you can’t keep your pants on?
Let’s go to the dealership today, so I can get an Aston Martin, and you can help me pay for it.

6). “Perhaps those that are really opposed to it could move to an unincorporated area that bans children. That place would be a real hoot.”
Actually, it IS! I love it.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Monadnock area, NH
1,000 posts, read 1,019,831 times
Reputation: 1149
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SuperSparkle928 again.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:26 AM
 
3,201 posts, read 2,536,878 times
Reputation: 1456
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrugalYankee View Post
SS I'm not sure you got my joke about Paul Revere. My snarky remark was a reference to two prominent politicians who presented an accounting of the events leading up to the American revolution that were news to a lot of us in New England.

Well let's see I grew up the child of a single mother. My father skipped out and this was before it was possible to do very much about deadbeat dads. It was all she could do to put a roof over our heads and food on the table. So if you want to talk meager means, I've been there and done that. According to your view, I should have ended up a waitress I guess, since she could not have afforded to pay for my schooling and was too tired to do much else when she got home.

As it was, I got a PhD and would feel utterly at home teaching the AP math, chemistry and physics since that happens to be my area.

How exactly is the "smart kid poor parent thing" "BS?" If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting in all seriousness that poor children in the US should not have access to even the most basic education unless their parents provide it either directly by home schooling or indirectly by paying for it. How many generations do you think it would take before we as a country deteroriated completely back to an agrarian society? Where do you propose that future scientists and engineers - the ones who are capable of coming up with concepts that translate into high value added products - are going to come from if only the wealthy are able to educate their chldren?
Hi FrugalYankee,

I realized after-the-fact that I missed the joke… sorry… I get it.
First, congrats on the PhD…math, chemistry, physics and engineering (software mostly) are mine too…
I am sorry about your past, but I never implied such a thing as a waitress…. I grew up with meager means, but my parents taught me “Figure out what you would like to do in life, and go for it”.

Perhaps I wrote my response in a manner that can be misinterpreted. What I was trying to say is that this is the land of opportunity… In many cases I know people that either grew up here, or migrated here, and had virtually nothing, yet ended up as major upstanding members in the community. My point was that an individual does not have to be a member of a wealthy family to be successful. One friend of mine came from Vietnam, with $20 in her pocket, and now is a key plastic surgeon at Mass General.
My Alma Mater just put $700M in technical investments to create the next generation of engineers and scientists…. I believe that that is the core of keeping this country strong.

I attempted to say that anyone, regardless of economic status, could end up being a major contributor to the country. Thus the “smart kid, poor parents” comment means that in all reality, (though it makes it harder with limited resources), a person is only limited by his/her dreams.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:44 AM
 
3,855 posts, read 6,635,760 times
Reputation: 2665
Quote:
Originally Posted by sgthoskins View Post
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SuperSparkle928 again.
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Old 10-27-2011, 07:47 AM
 
Location: at the end of a dirt road
2,980 posts, read 1,486,209 times
Reputation: 2026
SS thank you for your kind response. And please do not feel sorry for me growing up poor, I'm glad I did. Personally I think it builds character and self discipline.

I agree with our last post 100 % that this is the land of opportunity and also know people who started with little or nothing and achieved success, wealth and stability. I also want very much for it to stay that way and honestly don't see how that would be possible unless all kids are offered an education through high school that allows them to attend a college which will get them further in life and out of poverty for good. once they are out of high school and close to adulthood, even if they started out with a financial or familial disadvantage compared to others, there are ways for them to go to college if they want to.

I'm repeating myself I think so I'll stop, also this is getting into much deeper waters than the property tax issue.
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