Worst places in N.H. (Manchester, Nashua: apartments, income, jobs)

[wagner]

I was on holidays recently there in Claremont NH.....it is nothing there!
No nice restaurants , no shops and nothing to do.
Yes nice woods and that is all.I would never want to live there....it is not living...not for me!!!!

[GregW]

It is funny how the right wing (nhrnut & others) always blame the liberals for all the problems created by their own policies. The economic devastation of New Hampshire’s small cities is simply the result of the deindustrialization of first the northeast and now the entire country. The powers that be – namely the major international banks and financial institutions thought that they could have products manufactured at a higher profit either in the southern US or overseas. This has worked to their great advantage for the last couple of decades but is doomed because they are running out of customers to buy the stuff they import. The establishment of a near monopoly in the retail sector by Wal-Mart is a prime example. This company buys from China and uses monopolistic practices to undersell local businesses until they are closed and Wal-mart can raise the prices in the now local monopoly and move on to some other hapless town and repeat the destruction.

Between the loss of the wealth created by local industry and the loss of small business created by Wal-mart there are relatively few jobs of any sort and almost no really good paying jobs. What good paying manufacturing jobs that still exist are in the government sponsored defense industry. For example, the US Navy shipyard underpins the economy of the Portsmouth area with its well-paid very skilled workers. I expect the next wave of “cost cutting efficiencies” will be the outsourcing of our defense industries. I expect the financiers will be so blinded by greed that they will forget the concept that having your competitors, let alone your enemies, make you weapons is beyond dumb.

As I see the problem I suggest the solution is to restructure our business and financial communities into smaller organizations. We need to break-up the large “box store” chains, institute countervailing tariffs, regionalize the financial industry and return the majority of our manufacturing from foreign sources to our small cities. This would restore the middle class prosperity that has made our country prosperous because it would redistribute the wealth created to the creators and away form the financiers.

Instituting a rational energy supply system based on domestic non-carbon energy would also be part of this transformation but is for another rant.

[WannaComeHome]

Originally Posted by wagner

I was on holidays recently there in Claremont NH.....it is nothing there!
No nice restaurants , no shops and nothing to do.
Yes nice woods and that is all.I would never want to live there....it is not living...not for me!!!!

That's why it's so important to visit the town you're thinking of moving to. Not just look at the costs.

We seriously considered Deering, and found some land that was quite possible and about the same cost as what we ended up buying elsewhere. But we compared the two towns: Deering had a library (second floor of Town Hall), and that was it. Not sure where the PO was, not even a mom&pop convenience store of a sub or pizza place let alone anything else. We'd have to drive into Hillsboro for every single thing - which could get annoying when you've just run out of bread or milk. We decided that although Deering was a lovely town with lovely woods.... we personally needed just a touch more.

[WannaComeHome]

Originally Posted by GregW

I expect the next wave of “cost cutting efficiencies” will be the outsourcing of our defense industries.

What on earth makes you think we don't already? You obviously don't work in a field connected with the DoD! Although I believe it started somewhat with Reagan, Clinton pushed really hard to decimate some of the defense agencies on their personnel - which means contractors doing a lot of work that was "in house". Lots of things are outsourced - maybe not necessarily to a different country, but definately outsourced (and you have to by computer components and equipment from somewhere).

[east2west]

As one of the people Greg considers a "right winger", I have to say I agree with his post. Many of the policies both Democrats and Republicans have enacted have led to deindustrialization of our country. The outsourcing of jobs and big corporations gobbling up small businesses is contributing to the destruction of our economy and our freedoms. WannaComeHome is correct about outsourcing of defense jobs. I hope we can all come together on this one, before it's too late.

[countrylv22]

HELLO GREGW!


WOW! AN AMAZING POST! GREAT INFORMATION!

AND I AGREE, HOPEFULLY WE ARE NOT TOO LATE TO STOP THINGS AND OR AT LEAST SLOW THINGS DOWN...AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

I am looking forward to PART 2 of your post

THANK YOU!
COUNTRYLV22

Originally Posted by GregW

It is funny how the right wing (nhrnut & others) always blame the liberals for all the problems created by their own policies. The economic devastation of New Hampshire’s small cities is simply the result of the deindustrialization of first the northeast and now the entire country. The powers that be – namely the major international banks and financial institutions thought that they could have products manufactured at a higher profit either in the southern US or overseas. This has worked to their great advantage for the last couple of decades but is doomed because they are running out of customers to buy the stuff they import. The establishment of a near monopoly in the retail sector by Wal-Mart is a prime example. This company buys from China and uses monopolistic practices to undersell local businesses until they are closed and Wal-mart can raise the prices in the now local monopoly and move on to some other hapless town and repeat the destruction.

Between the loss of the wealth created by local industry and the loss of small business created by Wal-mart there are relatively few jobs of any sort and almost no really good paying jobs. What good paying manufacturing jobs that still exist are in the government sponsored defense industry. For example, the US Navy shipyard underpins the economy of the Portsmouth area with its well-paid very skilled workers. I expect the next wave of “cost cutting efficiencies” will be the outsourcing of our defense industries. I expect the financiers will be so blinded by greed that they will forget the concept that having your competitors, let alone your enemies, make you weapons is beyond dumb.

As I see the problem I suggest the solution is to restructure our business and financial communities into smaller organizations. We need to break-up the large “box store” chains, institute countervailing tariffs, regionalize the financial industry and return the majority of our manufacturing from foreign sources to our small cities. This would restore the middle class prosperity that has made our country prosperous because it would redistribute the wealth created to the creators and away form the financiers.

Instituting a rational energy supply system based on domestic non-carbon energy would also be part of this transformation but is for another rant.

[nhyrnut]

Originally Posted by GregW

It is funny how the right wing (nhrnut & others) always blame the liberals for all the problems created by their own policies. The economic devastation of New Hampshire’s small cities is simply the result of the deindustrialization of first the northeast and now the entire country. The powers that be – namely the major international banks and financial institutions thought that they could have products manufactured at a higher profit either in the southern US or overseas. This has worked to their great advantage for the last couple of decades but is doomed because they are running out of customers to buy the stuff they import. The establishment of a near monopoly in the retail sector by Wal-Mart is a prime example. This company buys from China and uses monopolistic practices to undersell local businesses until they are closed and Wal-mart can raise the prices in the now local monopoly and move on to some other hapless town and repeat the destruction.

Between the loss of the wealth created by local industry and the loss of small business created by Wal-mart there are relatively few jobs of any sort and almost no really good paying jobs. What good paying manufacturing jobs that still exist are in the government sponsored defense industry. For example, the US Navy shipyard underpins the economy of the Portsmouth area with its well-paid very skilled workers. I expect the next wave of “cost cutting efficiencies” will be the outsourcing of our defense industries. I expect the financiers will be so blinded by greed that they will forget the concept that having your competitors, let alone your enemies, make you weapons is beyond dumb.

As I see the problem I suggest the solution is to restructure our business and financial communities into smaller organizations. We need to break-up the large “box store” chains, institute countervailing tariffs, regionalize the financial industry and return the majority of our manufacturing from foreign sources to our small cities. This would restore the middle class prosperity that has made our country prosperous because it would redistribute the wealth created to the creators and away form the financiers.

Instituting a rational energy supply system based on domestic non-carbon energy would also be part of this transformation but is for another rant.

Can you name these policies? Walmart is one of the giant. What about Target, Costco, Kohls, ect. And a little FYI, A certain Clinton had fun sitting on there Board, Last I knew they where Democrats. Again Please learn your facts. Jobs went over seas Due to NAFTA and the like OH WAIT Clinton Added NAAEC and the NAALC amendments to it before HE BILL CLINTON signed it into law in November of 1993. Please, Please, learn your facts before one speaks. Bush Sr. Introduced it with Mexico, and Canada. But Clinton Pushed it and signed it.
Nice belief on business. But those who work hard, and are smart, can take a small and go large if they want. To break A store chain up is foolish. How about Cable, Or Natural gas in a city. You have no choice there. But yet you attack empires that where built and made, by dominating the competition. Isn't that what we invest for to make money? Or start our business for? I don't do either to loose money. Just do the homework and be correct, or state it to be your opinion. As most is just that. While I can back what I say.

[redsoxfan1967]

I been reading all the quotes about New Hampshire, I have a brother- in law that live Rochester, NH in good neighborhood it was quiet. Is taxes where high in Rochester around $3600 I think. But I went shopping there for grocery and clothes much cheaper there in New Hampshire then In Tulsa, clothes at the stores my daughter like to shop much better there.So what is the best places to live with good schools. I have been asking my family who lives in Maine, Mass, western part. By the way are taxes 9cent on the dollars on everything, high state taxes also, are gas price are much high then New Hampsire. So someone help me! My brother-in law says Rochester. And people seem nice to me there, the South is still the south (west).

[bryfry]

Originally Posted by GregW

It is funny how the right wing (nhrnut & others) always blame the liberals for all the problems created by their own policies.

Just a little forum pet peeve:
First, note how I edited the quote down to a small piece instead of leaving the entire post. How about not quoting at all if you are not going to use any of it. We've already read it. We don't have to read it twelve times. This thread would be about half the pages if others would do that. Now that I have that off my chest................whew!

GregW, you sound like a bright guy. Throwing out hard leftisms like that are not really accurate, let alone worthy of the rest of your post.
I agree in principal, but remember, it's individual towns that let these stores come in. The town governments are enticed by the promise of road and infrastructure improvements among other things. They get greedy thinking about the tax revenue and the belief there will be jobs. These "jobs" are almost all part-time and without benefits. It's that easy. The lawyers for these box stores are shrewd and very well bankrolled. Trust me when I tell you; it's happened more than once here on Cape Cod. What needs to be done is to say "no thank you".

But, as you stated, greed pays a big part in all this. Unions are a major factor in all this. They keep pushing manufacturers to the brink with ballooned demands of pay and benefits. What choice did business have but to go overseas? If they didn't, their overhead would skyrocket and that would be reflective in the cost to the consumer. Everything goes out to bid (even Defense Dept.), so if Chile can make a componant cheap, it gets the nod. It's a global business. Period.

Your last point makes sense in theory. We can still make a difference if we shop locally, keep money in the community, promote local small business tax breaks, curb our internet purchases for common goods that can be bought in town, and pressure Congress to offer incentives for homegrown businesses. I saw at local clothing store today a fall jacket that was made in the USA. Nice product, well constructed and a decent price. The stuff is out there, let's go and get it!

Well, if that isn't off topic of the original thread! Well, after ten pages what did you expect!

[ogre]

While it is popular to blame our neighbors south of the border (Massachusetts) for trying to liberalize NH a study by the University of NH Survey Center has shown this not to be true. In an editorial in last Sunday's, Nov. 26th, Union Leader (NH's largest and most conservative newspaper) agreed with the findings that, "People moving here from Massachusetts are the only reason that New Hampshire is staying as Republican as it is". Traditional Republican voters, the survey said, include the very kind of small-business owners and working-class people who have fled Massachusetts and settled mainly right across the border in Salem, Windham and other towns. In fact, all 13 state representatives elected from Salem and Windham this month were Republican, quite a contrast to the results elsewhere, which have resulted in the first Democrat-controlled House in modern times (90 some years). [QUOTE, woodchuck;181465]

I wonder what the details are in this report. If you know how I could obtain a copy, please let me know. I'd like to read it and see the details, so I can make up my own mind about whether those doing the study considered everything that might be relevant, and interpreted their findings accurately.

I live in MA and don't really like it, though circumstances keep me here for the present. I used to think of NH as a state I would prefer to live in, but, with the changes in NH in recent years, I'm not so sure. I'm curious about this report, and whether they really have gotten it right, since I have to ask the question about what is causing the political changes in NH if it's not the transplants from MA (and maybe other urban Northeastern states, even if not in the same numbers as those from MA).

It would be easier to believe that MA transplants would be especially strong supporters of traditional NH politics if the political differences were the only feature of NH that might attract disaffected residents of MA. This is not the case, however. One obvious attraction to NH is the lower housing costs than those in the immediate Boston area. Perhaps people from MA move to NH for the lower housing costs, and maybe other reasons as well, but do not agree with NH's politics and so try to change these to suit their desires.

This phenomenon of transplants from other states trying to change a place is apparently not unique to NH. For example, if you look through the Montana forum, you'll see a lot of talk about Californians moving to MT and trying to make it more like CA. I'd guess this happens in other places as well. Wherever this is happening, I'm guessing that part of the reason is that new arrivals want to have their cake and eat it too. They see certain features of their former home states they don't like, so they move to new states which are more to their liking in those particular ways they disliked about their old states, but then find that the new state also is different in some areas they liked about their old states, so they try to change those particular areas to suit their needs. Maybe this is happening with people moving into NH from MA.

Whatever is going on, again I express my doubts about whether that report is accurate, and raise the question of why NH has seen a shift in its politics if the reason is not the influence of new arrivals from other states. I'd be very interested in seeing the report for myself, to look at their evidence, and determine whether I agreed with their conclusions.