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Exactly. I'd rather see the AP test scores than enrollment figures to determine if the students are actually learning anything in those classes. Schools can concoct all kinds of bogus stats to make themselves look good. My HS was terrible, but they selected half the students to the National Honor Society so you'd think they were churning out geniuses.
Wow, to have the problem of having to choose between Hollis and Brookline. Definitely a first-world problem. As reputations go, these two towns seem to have excellent reputations on this forum from people looking for nothing but the best for their kids. The demographics of these towns appear to be upper middle class highly educated people and you really can't go wrong either way. It's like having to choose between winning a $100 million lottery and a $80 million dollar lottery. Either way you're good.
I chuckle at how parents absolutely obsess about having their kids in the absolute best school system possible and diving into the minutia trying to compare top school districts. Honestly, it's more about the parents preparing their kids and equipping them to be responsible young adults than it is about the school district (to a point). Good kids come out of Spaulding HS in Rochester and do well in college and other aspects of life. Would I want to send my son to Spaulding? Heck, no, but obsessing about AP and honors classes and other things among top rated schools is just pointless. Johnny or Jane will not fail in life if he/she does not go to the top rated school in the state. We are such an obsessive society these days.
Consider this: What makes a top school? What makes a good school?
- test scores on standardized tests? The test scores are highly correlated with parental education and SES. It's very hard to see any school component.
- college admission stats by percent or elite school admissions? Again, parents matter the most. Schools can contribute a bit, such as through broad course offerings.
- fancy building? You can answer that.
Interestingly, for many of us, a top performing school will be a handicap, since most kids will not be at the top, and these are very competitive schools. Top schools can also be a handicap in the admissions race for competitive colleges. Remember that there will be a lot of legacy admits, and the rest will be competing against each other for slots at say, Brown.
Even peer influences are interesting. Often they matter greatly, but not always. My daughter was in an elite New England prep school for two years. It was a miserable experience. Lunch discussions would be all about what country each would visit over breaks. There was a strong sense of entitlement. She left to go to the local public HS, which fit well.
It's also been said that top students at a second tier high school have a better chance of getting into better colleges in comparison to the top kids at the top high schools. Why? Those top kids at top schools are all the same and colleges want to mix up their population.
^ It's not that they're all the same. Your comment on mix up is the answer. No elite college will take too many students from the same school. Boston Latin and Virginia's Thomas Jefferson are good examples of the problem.
The elites (Ivy + mostly) have high performing graduates. One would expect that, since most (almost all frequently) have high performing parents, parents with high incomes and graduate degrees. The vaunted connections that so many claim are a benefit are mostly made outside the university, through parental connections, for example.
There's ample evidence that our business leaders are much more likely to be an undergrad alum of a state university than an elite institution .
Interesting discussion! Also fits with the recent story about how validictorians rarely become "game-changers" in the world -- because they tend to be more "by the book" than "out of the box" and are rewarded for that while in school.
I'm a huge fan of Mike Rowe and what he's advocating and we tell our son all the time, you can be a plumber or you can be a lawyer, just don't live in our basement!
Re: AP courses -- my husband is a high school history teacher (looking for a job in SNH as we speak) and was "forced" to let a bunch of kids take AP who weren't qualified because the parents demanded it. His pass rate for the class was low and it made HIM look bad, but of course all the kids he would've let in passed.
Wow, to have the problem of having to choose between Hollis and Brookline. Definitely a first-world problem. As reputations go, these two towns seem to have excellent reputations on this forum from people looking for nothing but the best for their kids. The demographics of these towns appear to be upper middle class highly educated people and you really can't go wrong either way. It's like having to choose between winning a $100 million lottery and a $80 million dollar lottery. Either way you're good.
I chuckle at how parents absolutely obsess about having their kids in the absolute best school system possible and diving into the minutia trying to compare top school districts. Honestly, it's more about the parents preparing their kids and equipping them to be responsible young adults than it is about the school district (to a point). Good kids come out of Spaulding HS in Rochester and do well in college and other aspects of life. Would I want to send my son to Spaulding? Heck, no, but obsessing about AP and honors classes and other things among top rated schools is just pointless. Johnny or Jane will not fail in life if he/she does not go to the top rated school in the state. We are such an obsessive society these days.
There's a difference between "obsessing" and "due diligence." I'm simply trying to choose a district that isn't satisfied with "competent" -- and that doesn't ignore the kids who are in need of accelerated curriculum/enrichment. That's it. AP and honors and everything from middle school on aren't really what I'm worried about -- it's the elementary schools and what they do with the kids who aren't in the middle of the bell curve.
Keep in mind though, even for high income parents whose biggest fear is that their child is only normal, Few kids are qualified for the elite ranks. .
For the record I'm not one of those "my precious snowflake is gifted and better than everyone else" parents -- he's legitimately in the 99.9% for IQ (WISC IV and V) and has already qualified for Davidson and CTY -- and honestly we never even talk about this to people in "real life" because we don't want to seem "braggy" (that's a whole other discussion that's better reserved for Hoagie's page on FB).
For the record I'm not one of those "my precious snowflake is gifted and better than everyone else" parents -- he's legitimately in the 99.9% for IQ (WISC IV and V) and has already qualified for Davidson and CTY -- and honestly we never even talk about this to people in "real life" because we don't want to seem "braggy" (that's a whole other discussion that's better reserved for Hoagie's page on FB).
Being in the 99.9% percentile does not mean a kid is in the top .1%! There's this thing called a ceiling effect where standardized tests become far less accurate at the extremes. The greatest accuracy is in the middle. That's why Stanley at Hopkins pioneered using other instruments. He ultimately chose to use the SAT, initially looking for kids that scored exceptionally high on the math section as 13 year olds. IIRC, he was looking for scores above 700.
One of the most interesting things to me that researchers have found regarding exceptional learners is how normal they are otherwise, actually a bit better than normal: good athletes, popular with peers, multi-dimensional talent, healthy etc. Yes, some are weird, nerds, crosseyed, whatever, but less so than their peers.
Be aware too that even the most talented will have disappointments. Recognize that failure is a gift that should be welcomed, and is the reward for pushing oneself. Yes, a reward, because the person finds that the world does not end when they fail, and that sometimes when they expect to fail, they don't !
Good luck raising such a kid. My only advice is "stay out of the way". My own daughter did many things that I did not like (nothing risky though, I would have tried to stop her) that turned out to be the right thing.
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