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Old 07-02-2017, 07:15 PM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,275,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa View Post
That is how it is set up today, and it doesn't work very well, which is why the unfunded pension problem is so large (pretty much all states). Rates of return are assumed, but they're not guaranteed, and as it is turning out the actual rates of return are less than forecast.
Right on, but the reality is worse. Accounting rules as apply to states allow assumed rates of return far higher than what's allowed in the private sector. Here's a good article that looks at the problem from a different angle.
http://www.pionline.com/article/2015...-discount-rate
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Madbury, NH
143 posts, read 195,777 times
Reputation: 101
Your all right. Brave, hats off.....we are past viewpoints really and just need a fix. It is not about sides anymore, never was for me, just wondering how we got here and the viewpoints and suggestions. I agree with at least funding to at least 80% or so, at least. Be glad we arent the USPS or we would have to fund 100% and up to 75 years in the future! That is unrealistic.

Anyhow, there should be a baseline amount that should always be available.....I think avg rates of return are more like a net 5% annualized....a supposed 7% increase, but 2% reduction for inflation figured into the stock market...but you dont figure the reduction(thats on us).

With a 4.3 billion shortfall.....where is it going to come from? Would people be for a specific sales tax that is specifically targeted and that is used to pay back this shortfall and then repealed once "x" target is hit? With very specific and only use going towards filling that hole? I know we are adverse to any taxes, but with our large tourism and out of state traffic, I have never understood why we dont have a sales tax.....specifically to set off property taxes or to go to school districts specifically. Ive complained many times that my 3.5% per year increase in property taxes is unsustainable.....sales taxes dont go up that much and at this point I am for it if it would set off prop taxes, but for here lets use it to fill that hole then pull it back. So how long would it take at say a flat 5% on all except consumables(food, etc). And not on cars either....they get us there already....and way too much. My feeling anyhow.
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Old 07-03-2017, 10:19 AM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,275,234 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozintime View Post
Would people be for a specific sales tax that is specifically targeted and that is used to pay back this shortfall and then repealed once "x" target is hit? With very specific and only use going towards filling that hole? I know we are adverse to any taxes, but with our large tourism and out of state traffic, I have never understood why we dont have a sales tax.....specifically to set off property taxes or to go to school districts specifically. Ive complained many times that my 3.5% per year increase in property taxes is unsustainable.....sales taxes dont go up that much and at this point I am for it if it would set off prop taxes, but for here lets use it to fill that hole then pull it back. So how long would it take at say a flat 5% on all except consumables(food, etc). And not on cars either....they get us there already....and way too much. My feeling anyhow.
Problem with taxes for targeted revenue is that money is fungible. This means that, with the shortfall (or schools or roads etc.) covered, money that would have gone to the shortfall is now free to be spent on something else.

It's the problem with "we need a tax increase for..." Money goes in one place and pops out somewhere else.
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Old 07-03-2017, 01:12 PM
 
3,272 posts, read 1,946,787 times
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Just wanted to sympathize. I'm from NJ and our pension debt is insane. My sister and her husband are retiring and moving out of NJ, because of our high property taxes and because they know sooner or later, the state is going to have to figure out how to pay that pension debt or start breaking promises to pensioners (not likely). I dread what will happen when someone grows the political courage to do what is right to end this mess. But I am not holding my breath for that to happen any time soon!
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Old 07-03-2017, 02:01 PM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,275,234 times
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NH's problem is going to get worse. Read this:
Quote:
The first and primary reason was the assumed rate of return for the NHRS’s investment accounts was set too high. Karlon said a group of experts has to assess the economic forecast to set the rates, but the “markets look tougher” than they did five years ago “because interest rates are so low.” Therefore, NHRS is projecting a 7.25 percent annual return on its investment, instead of the previous 7.75 percent rate.
Seen any 7.25% returns lately for conservative investments (which is what retirement funds should be)?
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Old 07-03-2017, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Posting from my space yacht.
6,824 posts, read 2,547,874 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozintime View Post

With a 4.3 billion shortfall.....where is it going to come from? Would people be for a specific sales tax that is specifically targeted and that is used to pay back this shortfall and then repealed once "x" target is hit?
And there it is. I knew it was coming. You know any new sales tax would never be temporary. It would be enacted with promises of being temporary and then it would just go on forever, and only get bigger with time. I don't understand why some people have such a hardon for a state sales tax. We already have insane property taxes that more than make up for not having the sales tax. Let's leave that, and any talk of an income tax, out of the discussion.
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Old 07-03-2017, 05:20 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 4,830,711 times
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Fund it like the NH legislature is supposed to.
Done.

So what is the issue?
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Old 07-03-2017, 05:31 PM
 
Location: Ossipee, NH
333 posts, read 194,186 times
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NO sales tax.

1. Once a tax is started, they will never get rid of it. It will only increase.
2. Only a fool believes they will lower property taxes. At best, they lower them temporarily to lull everyone into a false sense of security then bam, back up high like they were in addition to now having a sales tax.

They need to curtail their spending on every social program under the sun. That is where the money needs to come from.
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Old 07-03-2017, 06:05 PM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,174 posts, read 2,745,943 times
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Post Taxes only ever increase, we need to spend less, not extract more money from residents

Schools and school-age children are the root cause of our high property taxes, and even our pension fund shortfall -- pension participation is is mandatory for Police, Fire, and Teacher members.

NH needs to consider more options to reduce not just pension costs, but all public school expenditures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozintime View Post
With a 4.3 billion shortfall.....where is it going to come from? Would people be for a specific sales tax that is specifically targeted and that is used to pay back this shortfall and then repealed once "x" target is hit? With very specific and only use going towards filling that hole? I know we are adverse to any taxes, but with our large tourism and out of state traffic, I have never understood why we dont have a sales tax.....specifically to set off property taxes or to go to school districts specifically.
This sounds good, but never works out to taxpayer's benefit. I've seen what happens when you give a state a general income tax to play with; it isn't pretty. A new tax creates a new bureaucracy and while it changes how the money is collected and distributed (given more power to Concord in the process), there is no incentive to reduce spending.

Consider Vermont. They gave up the sales tax fight back in 1969. After multiple increases, they're at a 6% sales tax, up to 8.95% income tax, and Vermont property taxes have crept up to rival New Hampshire's. Vermont is consistently in the top ten states for total tax burden. Meanwhile, the new taxes shifted revenue and power from towns to Montpelier.

Same goes for Maine, and Connecticut.
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Old 07-03-2017, 06:11 PM
 
996 posts, read 839,659 times
Reputation: 860
I see Michigan shifted its new teachers from traditional pensions to 401k-type plans to (at least partially) address its pension funding shortfall:

As Illinois Goes Bankrupt, Michigan Embraces Bold Pension Reforms | Stock News & Stock Market Analysis - IBD

The private sector did this decades ago, I suspect the public sector will do the same, for basically the same reason. But not until voters demand it.
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