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Old 07-04-2017, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Londonderry, NH
41,505 posts, read 49,566,735 times
Reputation: 24548

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a long time ago I tried the private sector. A I am an environmental Scientist specializing in industrial air and water pollution, I soon realized that they and I were not compatible. I have worked for State governments for most of my career. In doing so I accepted the lower salary for job security and future benefits. I also invested my part of previous pensions in mutual funds. My last employment lasted 25 years and, along with VA disability, has provided a decent but not generous pension and great health insurance.


One of the reasons pensions, except for the Postal Service in an effort to destroy that service, are done on borrowed money is to allow the wealthy to buy very secure government bonds instead of paying income taxes to completely fund these pensions. New Hampshire is facing a shortfall in funding its pensions. I realized this decades ago which is one of the reasons I went to work somewhere else. I did not expect to collect a pension from New Hampshire's cheapskate Republicans.
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Old 07-04-2017, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Madbury, NH
143 posts, read 195,777 times
Reputation: 101
Well, as I see it....in one form or another NH is going to have to refund, at least partially, the shortfall. Selling assets, taxes, and bankruptcy are all possible. So far as taxes go, and being that I have watched my prop taxes go from 7800 to just over 12k in 10 years....I cannot see it going to prop taxes. If it does....I'm gone. I'm already on the edge with my business and my wife's cancer. I get zero services from Madbury, but yet they collect over 1000/yr on vehicle registrations to both state and town, and the aforementioned prop taxes. Does not mention the 9% meals tax or other hotel taxes that are levied. I see no other out but a sales tax or gas tax increase in order to attain this......

I predict when I pay off my house in 6 years my prop taxes....all things being equal and using the past as a predictor of future events, my prop taxes will be damn near 1200/mo. Our rates are 2/3 to the ORSD......1/3 to the town(which I receive absolutely zero services from). I am all for paying for quality education, but that is meant to be an investment for future return, but that is absolutely not happening. Without funding for higher education these quality students are leaving the state at an extremely high rate, not to mention the families/parents as soon as their children graduate from HS. I have counted at least 7 or 8 friends/families that moved within a year of their last child....or even most children, from ORSD. My home does not appreciate because the ORSD increases taxes at such a rate that my home cannot appreciate due to it's insatiable appetite for all things new and improved, and quality teachers. I am for it, until I see the benefit leave the area. The students immediately go to any other college because it is still cheaper to go out of state, or re-establish residency elsewhere, and then go to an institution of higher learning.....but not UNH unless their parents can afford to foot the whole bill and children don't mind taking on loads of loans.

Now, my town that I pay dog license fees, prop taxes, and registrations to have been steadily increasing at the rate of about 3% per year. Maybe not the dog license fee....but we don't have a dog catcher even. Also, if I call police, fire etc.....it is Durham that responds. And my plowing is done by the state. So.....for zero services, no children except one nephew that took a correspondence course through ORHS(I admit they were fantastic)....and the kids and families are top notch from what I have seen. So they turn out a quality product. But, there is minimal benefit to NH....30% maybe. If the kids were staying, not to mention families, I can justify the taxes for the quality......but I cannot when literally at least 70% leave....and that is being conservative. It is more than 7 out of 10 now that I think about it, anyway....you hopefully get my point. On the opposite side of this, I see people move here specifically to get the ORSD "magic". Lots of "challenged" children are seeming to end up here......and that's ok. Except the avg student cost is somewhere around 28K, and a "challenged" student is well, higher.....again, broad avg's. I also pay a business tax....one a sole prop....otherwise known as "state income tax" to me, but termed "business profits tax". OH....yeah...they could also raise the business profits tax.....but good luck with that! That is why I almost forgot, because it will never pass here.....that is less likely than a sales tax.

So, how is this going to be handled? I say a sales tax that has a strict shelf life and purpose specific use, with specific and final deadline upon reaching "x" goal. And the state has to vote on it. If not, they will do it through property taxes/bankruptcy or some crazy fee/use taxes.....get ready, because its coming. Or, maybe they can just keep pushing these shortages further into the future.

We need to tackle it now, before interest rates go up or economy takes a dive and then only exacerbates the current situation.

Last edited by frozintime; 07-04-2017 at 12:38 PM..
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Old 07-04-2017, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Ossipee, NH
335 posts, read 194,186 times
Reputation: 688
Frozintime, I get what you are saying, and you are mostly right, but why aren't you expecting your elected representatives to spend less rather than trying to justify their extracting yet more money from all of us? Where is all that money going? Clearly not where it should be, your own posts indicate that. Why does it cost $28k to teach one child? Where is that money going? These are the things you should be spending your time fighting.

You aren't listening to those who say money is fungible. It never goes only to what they claim to be collecting it for. It all goes into the general pot and when they see that money, they immediately withdraw it for whatever pet social service is popular and then have to collect more money again for the roads they were supposed to fix but didn't. You can't trust them one inch with more of our money.

I'll say it again. They need to be spending LESS. That is where the money needs to come from. Full stop.
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Old 07-04-2017, 03:20 PM
 
997 posts, read 839,659 times
Reputation: 860
I don't see how a new tax means paying less in taxes than raising an existing tax. That extra tax money is going to come from the same pockets.

What sb2017 says is true. Unless 100% of the cost of a program comes from a single source, and that single source is used to pay for nothing but that one program, the money will be moved around to pay for whatever. Then they'll come back the next year and ask for more taxes to pay for what the first tax increase was promised to pay for. I've seen it happen too many times.
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Old 07-04-2017, 08:23 PM
 
Location: Barrington, NH!
1,209 posts, read 1,811,464 times
Reputation: 1751
Quote:
Originally Posted by frozintime View Post
Without funding for higher education these quality students are leaving the state at an extremely high rate, not to mention the families/parents as soon as their children graduate from HS. I have counted at least 7 or 8 friends/families that moved within a year of their last child....or even most children, from ORSD. My home does not appreciate because the ORSD increases taxes at such a rate that my home cannot appreciate due to it's insatiable appetite for all things new and improved, and quality teachers. I am for it, until I see the benefit leave the area. The students immediately go to any other college because it is still cheaper to go out of state, or re-establish residency elsewhere, and then go to an institution of higher learning.....but not UNH unless their parents can afford to foot the whole bill and children don't mind taking on loads of loans.
You nailed it. The lack of state investment in higher education will be one of the pillars to NH's downfall of its competitive advantage. I work at UNH. I have admitted students (NH residents) that don't come to UNH but instead go to private non-profits (SNHU for example) or out of state public schools and pay the same rate (even with out of state tuition) as they would pay at UNH. This is scary to NH's future, whether or not you have kids in school. NH has a very short term outlook when it comes to higher education. We will lose our young people, and that will hurt NH's future. Other states value higher ed as an economic engine. We do not.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:08 AM
 
Location: West Madison^WMHT
3,174 posts, read 2,745,943 times
Reputation: 3822
Default Some folk are eager to vote for tax increases on "the other guy"

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa View Post
I don't see how a new tax means paying less in taxes than raising an existing tax. That extra tax money is going to come from the same pockets.
The proponents of adding new taxes assume that the new revenue extraction methods will be "progressive", reaching deeper into the wallets of their neighbors than into their own.

Locals generally don't complain about the state liquor stores, or the Rooms tax -- both mostly paid by visitors from out of state.
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Old 07-05-2017, 08:51 AM
 
4,711 posts, read 4,830,711 times
Reputation: 4838
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonesuch View Post
Schools and school-age children are the root cause of our high property taxes, and even our pension fund shortfall

NH needs to consider more options to reduce . . . . public school expenditures.

Yes.

Cut all Art programs.
Cut all Music programs.
Cut all foreign language programs.
Cut all shop programs.
Cut all physical education programs.
No more spending of building gymnasiums.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:29 AM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,275,234 times
Reputation: 2513
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731 View Post
Yes.

Cut all Art programs.
Cut all Music programs.
Cut all foreign language programs.
Cut all shop programs.
Cut all physical education programs.
No more spending of building gymnasiums.
You mean NH still has these? They've been cut already in many states. After all, how useful is a foreign language these days?

Art or Music? puleeze.

I went to a Jesuit college prep HS. We wasted NO time on art or music, to no loss that I could ever see. The arty types these days have plenty of time to get their fix in college in things like musical theatre or art history, good prep for entering the job world as a barrista....

Frankly, I find it hard to see the value in any of the humanities. Learning good writing is important of course, but there's no need to learn that in an "English" class that spends most of its time focusing on "literature" that none of us remember, none of us understood, with questions that were unanswerable except by the teacher such as the search for meaning.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Barrington, NH!
1,209 posts, read 1,811,464 times
Reputation: 1751
Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731 View Post
Yes.

Cut all Art programs.
Cut all Music programs.
Cut all foreign language programs.
Cut all shop programs.
Cut all physical education programs.
No more spending of building gymnasiums.
Correct. Because we don't want to spark any creativity in our kids, right? Or give them anything fun to do in school to keep them motivated like Phys Ed. I think shop programs are mostly at the Career Technical Center High Schools now unlike when I was in high school.

Why would we want to expose our kids to anything other than math and writing and science, right? We don't need to introduce them to anything that might spark an interest or broaden their creative skills. Because creativity plays no part in our economy, right?

Quite drastic. No gyms? Many schools use their gyms for other purposes too. Multi-use space.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Barrington, NH!
1,209 posts, read 1,811,464 times
Reputation: 1751
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
After all, how useful is a foreign language these days?
You are being sarcastic, right?
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