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Old 07-05-2017, 09:54 AM
 
996 posts, read 838,971 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unit731 View Post
Cut all Art programs.
Cut all Music programs.
Cut all foreign language programs.
Cut all shop programs.
Cut all physical education programs.
I'm not sure this would actually save much. You would still have the same number of teachers, so the amount set aside for pensions would be the same.

To reduce pension costs you need to find a way to make education more efficient, i.e., require fewer teachers.
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Old 07-05-2017, 09:59 AM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,273,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steveusaf View Post
You are being sarcastic, right?
I am not being sarcastic. I know French and German. Even vacationing to Europe, it's better to use English, although it has been fun to be at a business meeting in Germany and listen in to the conversations of my hosts, who assume I don't know German!

If you are at all involved in Business, especially tech and biomedical/pharm, english is the universal language. Been there, done that...
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Old 07-05-2017, 10:03 AM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,273,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa View Post
I'm not sure this would actually save much. You would still have the same number of teachers, so the amount set aside for pensions would be the same.

To reduce pension costs you need to find a way to make education more efficient, i.e., require fewer teachers.
I'm sure if you drop these and a few more, you can cut headcount big time. Take music - often taught by part-timers.

Sports are interesting. Various states at various times have put high extra curricular fees on sports to make them self-paying. This results in big complaints from others who complain that it is a hardship for low income parents. But that's rather how life is for low income families, isn't it? Hopefully many got help.
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Old 07-05-2017, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Madbury, NH
143 posts, read 195,697 times
Reputation: 101
I understand the funds they say they will spend on "x" go to "y".....yes, but why isnt it possible? I dont see how it is impossible. I just dont see other realistic solutions. We cannot cut our way out of this......that NEVER works. We actually need to spend more, sad to say....I am for the sales tax solution just because I think it would be funded more so with out of state money than any other solution. It could be sent to one account, and not withdrawn.....period. Yes, I hear those saying the money wont get used as intended.........but our gov't needs oversight then.

So far as cutting school programs......I say expand their minds, and cut sports. I would rather have my child speaking spanish and playing a piano. If they want to play sports.....then I say let that be organized outside of school, can still keep the districts/teams etc., but it would be my choice, and my bill if I had a child playing baseball, basketball, etc. But, in the vein of fairness why couldnt they learn piano or any other instrument or language outside of school too? They could......I always had to come in an hour early or stay two hours after school to play ball? The expense of the coach/equipment/lessons should be laid at the feet of the parents? I know how well that will fly....but that is fair then. I dont think we will save that much by cutting these programs, but maybe it is time to start trying to lay the responsibility back at the families doorstep. I had piano lessons......not in school either. But, I think our social climate has changed and both parents are working to make ends meet, and I see preschool/K getting used as baby sitting rooms so parents can make $$$. Tough personal realities that meet in our society.....and town halls.

So if your for cutting languages, music, shop etc., then you would be for cutting sports......right? Ive watched a whole generation quit playing everything except x box.....I scream when I go to my nephews/nieces and the damn box is a babysitting machine teaching absolutely nothing.

We arent going to be able to partially refund this problem solely with cuts to schools anyway.....thats a local issue. I agree about the taking the fight to the town hall, but I am outnumbered, not in reality, but in those that show up. I have 4 immediate neighbors......none have children.....but how many show up to the town hall? The ones that show up are older, or have a serious vested interest in the education of their children......and they do show up. So good for them......they are getting what they want and the rest pay for it. System hasnt changed, but apparently the motivations have.

There needs to be a way to tackle this. We also need a way to keep our well educated product here in NH. Jobs are another reason.....unless they work in fast food/cashier type jobs.....its tough to have a reason to stay. I will say I ended up here do to the tax situation, being self employed, etc. The property taxes, even now, were just part of what myself and spouse would send to the state for income tax. Not anymore....but that isnt on the state....just crappy luck on our part.

I appreciate the rational discussion. There are answers. We just have to be willing to stretch in some areas, and tighten in others. We have a more direct gov't in NH than in any other state. We have more voice as individuals in NH than any state. Its amazing actually. Another class that is lost.....civics! It shows....try asking young people anything about our local gov't. They might know more here than elsewhere too......but Texas? Cal? The kids have NO CLUE.....bodes not so well for the future. I am not for cutting study programs. I used to remember having to take logic and other social/economic programs that were cut long ago.......and it has had an effect. I dont think kids have a clue how to balance a budget or how our government works. No wonder their is such a passe' attitude towards voting and having a voice in our gov't/society.
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Old 07-05-2017, 01:04 PM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,273,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozintime View Post
I understand the funds they say they will spend on "x" go to "y".....yes, but why isnt it possible? I dont see how it is impossible. I just dont see other realistic solutions. We cannot cut our way out of this......that NEVER works. We actually need to spend more, sad to say....I am for the sales tax solution just because I think it would be funded more so with out of state money than any other solution. It could be sent to one account, and not withdrawn.....period. Yes, I hear those saying the money wont get used as intended.........but our gov't needs oversight then.
If we get a sales tax, retail sales will drop like a rock because folks from MA won't have a reason to come to shop in NH. They'll pay their sales tax back in MA.

Regarding youth sports, my daughter played a number with good success (Varsity in HS in soccer and tennis), but I can't say it made any difference in her life. I've never seen any sound research that says competitive sports makes any difference in an adolescent's life either, other than hurting the confidence of some. Sports can be done out of school on one's own.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:03 PM
 
Location: Ossipee, NH
333 posts, read 194,069 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
Regarding youth sports, my daughter played a number with good success (Varsity in HS in soccer and tennis), but I can't say it made any difference in her life. I've never seen any sound research that says competitive sports makes any difference in an adolescent's life either, other than hurting the confidence of some. Sports can be done out of school on one's own.
Sports should be teaching adolescents how to both win and lose gracefully. It should be teaching them good sportsmanship. It should be teaching them "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again." It should be teaching them "Practice makes perfect." It should be teaching them about setting goals and attaining them. It should be teaching them how to be a good team player. It should be teaching them respect. It should be teaching them about keeping their bodies in good physical condition.


Schools absolutely should be teaching Art, Music, Shop, Home Ec, foreign languages, civics, etc in addition to reading, writing, and arithmetic. Cuts should be made at the administrative level. So many aids, "assistants", paper pushers, evaluators, etc. School boards as well are overflowing with unnecessary people. Crony contracts, you name it. All paid for with our money.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:44 PM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,273,805 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb2017 View Post
Sports should be teaching adolescents how to both win and lose gracefully. It should be teaching them good sportsmanship. It should be teaching them "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again." It should be teaching them "Practice makes perfect." It should be teaching them about setting goals and attaining them. It should be teaching them how to be a good team player. It should be teaching them respect. It should be teaching them about keeping their bodies in good physical condition.


Schools absolutely should be teaching Art, Music, Shop, Home Ec, foreign languages, civics, etc in addition to reading, writing, and arithmetic. Cuts should be made at the administrative level. So many aids, "assistants", paper pushers, evaluators, etc. School boards as well are overflowing with unnecessary people. Crony contracts, you name it. All paid for with our money.
Sports SHOULD be doing what you say, but usually doesn't. And those personal qualities should not be the job of the school to teach. I would hope the kids have parents to help teach them a few things.

You don't make a very good case for keeping frills like art and music. I thought you might do better. How much do you know about "unnecessary people" that can be fired? Have you ever even looked at a school budget? Have you ever been in one counting these unnecessaries? (sounds like a good campaign bit. Get rid of the unnecessaries, along with the waste!) I thought not.You ought to put a little time into such statements. You ought to know what services are mandated by federal law, leading to aides that can't be dumped, unless you want your kids to teach themselves while the teacher deals with kids on Individualized Educational Plan (IEP).

BTW, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again." could be taught by lots of other things like math.
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Old 07-05-2017, 03:50 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 4,827,027 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb2017 View Post
Schools absolutely should be teaching Art, Music, Shop, Home Ec, foreign languages, civics, etc in addition to reading, writing, and arithmetic. Cuts should be made at the administrative level. So many aids, "assistants", paper pushers, evaluators, etc. School boards as well are overflowing with unnecessary people. Crony contracts, you name it. All paid for with our money.
The original post is about unfunded pensions for the state of New Hampshire.

Probably time to start a post about schools as this could go on a long time.

But to clarify the school aids - all mandated by the state for special education laws. Can't cut them.

Now back to the underfunded pensions.

There will be no sales tax nor will there be any income tax. So come up with others ideas to put money into the underfunded pension plans. Promises agreed by all parties at the time.
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Ossipee, NH
333 posts, read 194,069 times
Reputation: 688
Well, it did tie in - cut spending. Everywhere, including "special education". (But yes it did start to stray too far, my apologies.)


@bigbear99 - Yes there are points to be made (such as the correlation between playing a musical instrument and performing better in school) but as was pointed out, that is straying from the point of the topic. You are, however, absolutely correct that parents should be teaching most of those things I listed related to sports.
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Old 07-05-2017, 05:55 PM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,273,805 times
Reputation: 2513
Since schools are the biggest expense, let's cut school entirely and let parents home school.

Seriously, I think the folks that benefit from the pensions - the employees - should be responsible for the bail out. Let their contributions rise, and rise a lot if necessary. It's only fair. If it gets to expensive for their tastes, let them sit down with the retirees, their former colleagues, and sort it out.
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