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Old 07-11-2017, 08:59 AM
 
1,332 posts, read 942,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
Maybe you can explain to me what this "creative/abstract thinking" is and why humanities are such a great way to learn it. Folks learn a tremendous amount of logical/rational reasoning in the sciences, BTW.

UX/Design research? Daughter works at Facebook in the field with a science related Ph.D. Many ways to skin a cat, I suspect.
I was responding to a poster who suggested the arts, as whole, was 'mostly useless' - data suggests otherwise. My post was neither an attack on STEM or a booster for humanities degrees, but it was suggesting the anti-intellectualism against the arts is severely misguided. I'm suggesting that STEM, in tandem with the arts, is what yields the thinkers America desperately needs.

UX/Design research? Daughter works at Facebook in the field with a science related Ph.D. Many ways to skin a cat, I suspect.

I'd suggest there's many cats to skin within a narrow field. A modern UX/UI requires coders/programmers, data analysis, human factor engineers, interaction designers, graphic designers, and dimensional designers like ID/CAD specialists. Some of these folks have BS+, others have BFA+. ALL are required to have a functional, usable, and successful product - you're daughter is a competent cog in a much larger dev team.
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Old 07-11-2017, 09:42 AM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,272,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
I was responding to a poster who suggested the arts, as whole, was 'mostly useless' - data suggests otherwise.
Can you point me to the data and research that "suggests otherwise"? I'm probably the one who said "useless" because I've never seen any solid, non self-serving (i.e. done by researchers in the field ) evidence showing value beyond a "cultural" value. I'd love to see the evidence contrary to my education and experience.
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:29 AM
 
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Science and art are not mutually exclusive. Just about everything we use and touch today is a combination of the work of both scientist and artist. The phone you are e-mailing with? Lots of technology but plenty of art involved from how it looks to the way the apps look and work. The car you drove to work in? Tons of engineering but the people that made it look pretty are who got your attention. The building you are sitting in? A structural engineer made it stand up but an architect made it aesthetically pleasing. The website you are looking at? A programmer did the background code but an artist had to tell them what it should look like.

Pythagoras was a brilliant mathematician but he was also a musician that applied math to music. He created an instrument tuning method and musical scale that was in use for 900 years. Einstein was an accomplished pianist and violinist in addition to physicist. Then there was Da Vinci who was probably the greatest combination of artist and engineer.

One area that I recently discovered is the idea of STEM to STEAM - adding Art to the traditional STEM areas. There's nothing wrong with teaching kids STEM as well at art. Not every kid will be a scientist or engineer and the world would be a very boring place if they all were. Artists - painters, sculptors, art therapists, web designers, architects, auto designers, fashion designers, et al - affect our lives.
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Old 07-11-2017, 11:50 AM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,272,420 times
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robr2, you're confusing art with aesthetics. Design, as in cars, dashboards, user interfaces and such is all design. Rarely is "art" involved.

The job marketplace tells us where the value is. STEM = easy job finding, good salaries. Art and Humanities? very hard job finding, poor salaries, lots of jobs that don't require a college education. That tells me that arts and humanities are a luxury good. And the majority of creative professionals don't have formal art education. Look at the Beatles, for instance. Who had formal music education?

Interestingly, many scientists are amateur musicians, many quite good. Harvard Medical School and its affiliated hospitals have the Longwood Symphony made up of medical professionals.
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Old 07-11-2017, 12:40 PM
 
1,332 posts, read 942,229 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
robr2, you're confusing art with aesthetics. Design, as in cars, dashboards, user interfaces and such is all design. Rarely is "art" involved.

The job marketplace tells us where the value is. STEM = easy job finding, good salaries. Art and Humanities? very hard job finding, poor salaries, lots of jobs that don't require a college education. That tells me that arts and humanities are a luxury good. And the majority of creative professionals don't have formal art education. Look at the Beatles, for instance. Who had formal music education?

Interestingly, many scientists are amateur musicians, many quite good. Harvard Medical School and its affiliated hospitals have the Longwood Symphony made up of medical professionals.
You're a bit naive on what 'design' is and what paths one has to take to become a 'designer'. For starters, you're conflating traditional arts & design institutions (e.g., RISD, MassArt, Art Center, CCS) with liberal arts - distinctly different.

The interaction, aesthetics, and to a degree, the core architecture and manufacturing of the objects you interface with daily were largely defined by a designer who has an arts degree from one of these institutions and heap loads of 'formal arts training'.
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Old 07-11-2017, 01:09 PM
 
2,660 posts, read 1,272,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrewsburried View Post
You're a bit naive on what 'design' is and what paths one has to take to become a 'designer'. For starters, you're conflating traditional arts & design institutions (e.g., RISD, MassArt, Art Center, CCS) with liberal arts - distinctly different.
I think it is a bit much to call someone "naive" when you know nothing of the person's background. And I was not even thinking of places like RISD. Don't know why you jump to such a conclusion.

Quote:
The interaction, aesthetics, and to a degree, the core architecture and manufacturing of the objects you interface with daily were largely defined by a designer who has an arts degree from one of these institutions and heap loads of 'formal arts training'.
This is the wildest claim I've seen in a while. To claim "the core architecture and manufacturing of the objects you interface with daily were largely defined by a designer who has an arts degree" rather strains credibility, my training and my experience.

I don't see much to discuss here, since I don't believe your opinions and claims any more than you believe mine. I am signing off from this discussion, thank you.
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Old 07-11-2017, 02:45 PM
 
1,332 posts, read 942,229 times
Reputation: 1564
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99 View Post
I think it is a bit much to call someone "naive" when you know nothing of the person's background. And I was not even thinking of places like RISD. Don't know why you jump to such a conclusion.



This is the wildest claim I've seen in a while. To claim "the core architecture and manufacturing of the objects you interface with daily were largely defined by a designer who has an arts degree" rather strains credibility, my training and my experience.

I don't see much to discuss here, since I don't believe your opinions and claims any more than you believe mine. I am signing off from this discussion, thank you.
I'm simply speaking from my background in medical device development. The commercialization of tech, IMO, requires specialists both within and outside of STEM, including those with formal arts training. There are exceptions, but I'd venture to say they're the outliers.

And I was not even thinking of places like RISD. Don't know why you jump to such a conclusion.

Why? Because you directly addressed my original post in which I suggested I and peers with 'arts training' have forged successful careers in design and that there is inherent value in the creative services industry (i.e., the arts). You responded with a post that was one part "STEM>all", and one part "liberal arts losers" ... neither of which addressed my original sentiment - would you not agree?
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:00 AM
Yac
 
5,874 posts, read 6,290,826 times
Notice how the recent discussion has exactly zero to do with the topic.
Notice how it's becoming more and more personal.
Notice the mod is aware :P
Just some food for thought
(and if you can't read between the lines: calm down and get back on topic, please. Remember you can always discuss these private issues, like who is naive and who has what kind of background etc, privately. You don't have to use a thread about something else to do it )
Yac.
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