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Environmentalists killed the pipeline, or did the drop in foreign NG demand and price kill the pipeline?
Northern New England's opposition to the Kinder Morgan natural gas pipeline (NED) was less because of environmental concerns than about the perception of risk, property value impact, and perceived lack of any local benefit from the the 30-inch high-pressure transmission pipeline -- the NED plan would have had minimal positive impact on local availability of NG and on local electricity prices.
NED was about export, not about local distribution:
Exactly. This pipeline was mostly about export not supplying the New England region. Further, there was a proposal to transfer the entire cost of the pipeline to electric and gas ratepayers throughout New England to cover the cost as some of the gas would be used here. When that was shot down, the export market could not support the price of the gas that would travel through the pipeline.
As I noted before, there were interstate pipeline proposals to alleviate the shortage and provide for the expansion of nat gas distribution network, but that was killed. That ship board LPG is coming from the middle east and Indonesia and exacerbating out trade deficit. One engineer estimates that an LNG tanker explosion would be as powerful as 50 atomic bombs.
Actually 80% of that shipboard LNG comes from Trinidad in the Caribbean. Bringing it from halfway around the world would probably make it unprofitable.
This thread was started by someone worried about running out of fuel oil. How many homeowners regularly check that fuel gauge on the top of their oil tank and furthermore how accurate is it? Running out of fuel oil when there is 2 feet of snow on the roads can be life threatening. Last night the low temp in my back yard where I currently live was -8° F, but I'm as comfortable as a bug in a rug with nat gas heating. I don't have to worry about running out of fuel or of being gauged by fuel dealers or carrying loads of dusty firewood or cleaning out the ashes from the stove. I can't understand the visceral opposition to bringing natural gas into northern NE when it's so readily available and so cheap and so clean.
I saw Bernie Sanders making a speech on the Senate floor last week demanding that the congress appropriate $84 billion to rebuild the electrical grid in Puerto Rico. Why not call for appropriating 1/10th or less of that amount to bring in and distribute nat gas to the area?
I saw Bernie Sanders making a speech on the Senate floor last week demanding that the congress appropriate $84 billion to rebuild the electrical grid in Puerto Rico. Why not call for appropriating 1/10th or less of that amount to bring in and distribute nat gas to the area?
Because after 3.5 months, 50% of the population of a US commonwealth are still without electric power.
Natural gas infrastructure in NH would be a convenience. An electrical grid in PR is a necessity.
Last night the low temp in my back yard where I currently live was -8° F, but I'm as comfortable as a bug in a rug with nat gas heating. I don't have to worry about running out of fuel or of being gauged by fuel dealers or carrying loads of dusty firewood or cleaning out the ashes from the stove. I can't understand the visceral opposition to bringing natural gas into northern NE when it's so readily available and so cheap and so clean.
Good for you for living in an area with nat. gas, but don't lord it over those of us living in less dense areas that make pipe construction uneconomical. Propane is not just for New England, either. It's all over the country where nat gas pipes are too expensive - Midwest, Mountain states, West coast, for example. Did a holiday trip to Big Sur this fall. Propane everywhere.
Meanwhile, I'll take the minor inconvenience of having to watch fuel level for the pleasure of all our rural countryside offers, and the lack of congestion you find in areas that have nat gas!
I can't understand the visceral opposition to bringing natural gas into northern NE when it's so readily available and so cheap and so clean.
I saw Bernie Sanders making a speech on the Senate floor last week demanding that the congress appropriate $84 billion to rebuild the electrical grid in Puerto Rico. Why not call for appropriating 1/10th or less of that amount to bring in and distribute nat gas to the area?
Because New Hampshire is mostly white folk? At best, implementing NG distribution (which the NED pipeline would not have helped with) would just save a few hundred thousand already reasonably well-off white folk a few hundred bucks a year on heating costs, and that's just not politically useful.
I like Natural Gas heat, had it at every place I've lived before moving to New Hampshire, but I've accepted that with low population density, shallow ledge and granite, and no appetite for tax increases, even if a pipeline was run across NH, my town will never get piped in Natural Gas, as there's no way to recoup the infrastructure/installation cost -- ignoring the fact that the 30-inch high pressure pipeline plans had no provisions for local distribution in western MA or southern NH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5
This thread was started by someone worried about running out of fuel oil. How many homeowners regularly check that fuel gauge on the top of their oil tank and furthermore how accurate is it? Running out of fuel oil when there is 2 feet of snow on the roads can be life threatening.
I suspect most homeowners have an "automatic delivery" contract with their supplier, and rarely even bother to think about how much oil is in the tank, at least until we get a confluence of factors like we have now in New Hampshire.
If you worry about running out of oil, there are electronic monitors which use ultrasonic 'ping' technology (similar to the backup alert on a car) to measure the oil level and alert the homeowner when you are running low. Here's one, popular in Europe:
Some systems display the level in 10% intervals, others are accurate to within a few gallons, and ultrasonic avoids any possibility of float problems resulting in falsely high/low readings.
If you're really worried, you can do what I did a few years ago -- get an entire second tank connected in tandem with a cutoff valve. Make sure that the top of both tanks are at the same level, so leaving the valve open cannot result in one tank overflowing.
^ You reminded me of the biggest difference between oil and propane. At least around here in SW NH, no one owns their propane tank because no one will sell it to you. Oil users all own their tanks.
This means oil heat folks can shop around for refills. Suppliers don't like this, so they use preference to auto-fill customers to get a hook set. With propane, as soon as you get the tank delivered, you are somewhat locked in. Sure you can switch suppliers (if you don't have a one or two year contract in force), but at what cost in time and money? No one buys back the left over propane.
^ You reminded me of the biggest difference between oil and propane. At least around here in SW NH, no one owns their propane tank because no one will sell it to you. Oil users all own their tanks.
This means oil heat folks can shop around for refills. Suppliers don't like this, so they use preference to auto-fill customers to get a hook set. With propane, as soon as you get the tank delivered, you are somewhat locked in. Sure you can switch suppliers (if you don't have a one or two year contract in force), but at what cost in time and money? No one buys back the left over propane.
You can have your own tank installed if you want. But it's another cost to bear and then it's yours to deal with any issues.
You may be able to buy the tank the company is providing - it's worth a shot.
Propane is not just for New England, either. It's all over the country where nat gas pipes are too expensive - Midwest, Mountain states, West coast, for example. Did a holiday trip to Big Sur this fall. Propane everywhere.
Pacific Gas & Electric supplies nat gas to Salinas, Castroville, Pacific Grove, Monterey, Pebble Beach, Carmel, Seaside and most other Monterey County locations. Are you a propane dealer by any chance?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbear99
Meanwhile, I'll take the minor inconvenience of having to watch fuel level for the pleasure of all our rural countryside offers, and the lack of congestion you find in areas that have nat gas!
You can enjoy living in the bucolic countryside and still have nat gas. Look closely at the photo of a house I posted on the previous page. That house is very remote and is hooked up to natural gas. It is possible if the politicians got on board and wackos stopped the propaganda assault. By the way, how do you like the acrid smell of wood smoke that pervades the northern NE countryside during the colder months?
Pacific Gas & Electric supplies nat gas to Salinas, Castroville, Pacific Grove, Monterey, Pebble Beach, Carmel, Seaside and most other Monterey County locations. Are you a propane dealer by any chance?
Guess folks like their propane better, no? Sure saw a lot of tanks.
I doubt they run a skinny distribution pipe a long way from the major pipes. Lots of blank areas. Not sure what you mean by "most". Also, I am not a dealer, propane or anything else.
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Digital tank gauge with ultrasonic sensor and remote alerting for the paranoid
