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Indeed, slogans are not policies, therefore, while catchy, they are empty and meaningless.
I dunno. How about: "Just do it", "New Deal", "Equal Rights", "Ask not what your country can do for you", "It's the economy, stupid". These are powerful, and meaningful.
Don't forget the counter-slogan too. These probably have better effect: "Weak on Terror", "Tax and Spend", "Bush's Third Term", "
I dunno. How about: "Just do it", "New Deal", "Equal Rights", "Ask not what your country can do for you", "It's the economy, stupid". These are powerful, and meaningful.
Don't forget the counter-slogan too. These probably have better effect: "Weak on Terror", "Tax and Spend", "Bush's Third Term", "
Do you mean, like, "Obama is another Jimmy Carter"? or..."yes we can" ...
Take from the rich and give to the poor? Yes we can!
Raise taxes? Yes, we can!
Prevent offshore drilling? Yes, we can!
The Kennedy quote is just that - a memorable quote. I personally wouldn't call it a slogan.
I think slogans are catchy, but you have to look at what they *deliver*, and how they do that. Slogans by themselves can create mindless following.
In this thread you point out how much Obama has done for the city of Chicago... and basically are saying that you'd like to see Obama carry New Hampshire. However, I just finished reading another post by you in which you talk about the taxes, etc. in Chicago where you just moved from.
Let me try to explain...
My property taxes in IL had nothing to do with Obama or Chicago. I lived in a suburb outside the city where the school district (which is where most of the money goes) and the county set the property taxes. The state gets almost nothing and the city of Chicago could care less what our town did as long as it didn't affect them. Obama couldn't have "fixed" that if he wanted to. It was also a very fast growing town and the property taxes skyrocketed to keep up with building schools to keep the over crowding down, and the money to buy the land to build them on, new teacher's salaries, etc.
Chicago raised it's city sales tax and the state raised theirs to keep up with replacing the city infrastructure. For example, they recently had a large water main break that flooded business and created a giant sink hole. That water line was over 100 yrs old and was scheduled to be replaced next year. The city is aging, and the crooked politics of the past kept the money without putting it to use. Some of the "Daley machine" is still going on, but it is getting better since the days of his father's realm. Also, the public transportation system needs a huge influx of money to keep them in repair and replace 50 yr old train cars that are still running, fixing and upgrading tracks, stations, etc. Chicago is like NY in so far as most of it's residents do not own cars and rely on public transportation to get anywhere. Most of that transportation is it's train system. They have also kept the price of riding on such transportation cheap and it is now free for seniors. In today's economy, not having a car is a plus, and not providing it would be devastating for both the people and the city. The city can't handle the traffic it has now, let alone if all those people affected needed to drive everywhere.
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Now, I'm not saying that the tax tax and more tax situation that you just left in Illinios has anything to do with Obama and the rest of the Democratic party (but the state IS largely Democrat, is it not??) I just couldn't help but notice that it sounds VERY familiar with the story I hear from soooo many people who leave Massachusetts (die hard Democrats, all) who want to live in New Hampshire to get away from all the taxes... and then turn around and vote for the same party who served up all those taxes. Big government depends on taxes on everything and anything... You may not be chuckling any more if your wish comes true and Obama wins it all and we in New Hampshire are dealing with income tax, sales tax and all the other taxes that the largely Democrat states are dealing with...
Actually, with the exception of the immediate Chicago area, most of the state was historically Republican. Lincoln, from IL, helped build the Republican party into a strong organization. But, in 2002 that started to change. But, Democrats are not the only ones who run crooked governments. Ex Gov Ryan (republican) who was governor until 2003 was convicted and sent to jail last year for his corruption. Scandal always seems to put the opposite party in charge. A democratic governor was elected (who is also facing scandals).
When we first moved to the Chicago area, I remember reading an article in the local newspaper that talked about a scandal in the Chicago governement. I laughed because to me scandal and Chicago were always linked, remember Al Cappone?
Yes, big government depends on taxes. Yes, the democratic party usually increases the size and scope of government. BUT, I would rather pay more taxes if the taxes go to helping those less fortunate or to help the environment we live in. The republican party lately seems more intent on giving to the rich rather than to the poor. Taxes are a part of life and you are always going to pay, and it's just going to keep getting worse. But, if the money going to fight a war we never should have started, or giving up the taxes from companies that moved overseas, or giving up the taxes that the rich should have paid, etc. would go to those programs, our taxes would drop.
We need to worry about prevention instead of dealing with emergencies like Hurricane Katrina. If they had spent the money to fix the levees, it wouldn't have happened. They knew about them for many years. If they thought about spending the $100,000+ it cost to "loan" them a trailer, pay crooked people money over and over again to "fix them up", etc., it would've been cheaper to just build them a small house and be done with it. But, no, money just gets wasted and never gets to the people who need it. And, those levees were never newly built to withstand the next hurricane, they were just patched so they can break again. In May they reportedly "sprang a leak", so the panic starts anew. No one really thinks about the people, just the immediate political fallout.
reps for dbffiej63 for an informative and well written post! We don't have to agree, but open debate is so much more productive than the way most of these arguments go..
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Originally Posted by debbiej63
Let me try to explain...
<snip>
Taxes, reluctantly ok. Stupidity, no.
Hopefully, it means that more effort goes into making alternative solutions.
I don't agree with personal attacks, but it does go both ways. People may be disrespecting McCain, but they also disrespect Obama.
i haven't seen anyone disrespecting obama about anything he's done. i also haven't seen anyone in mcains church going on a racial white hating rant. don't you relize that raising taxes just trickles down hill and we pay for it. so we don't pay once but twice. so what do you think that will do for the economy ,huh? i imagine nothing. i don't think that some one that hangs out with those kinds of people and wants to raise taxes is going to make a very good president at all. i would rather have someone with experience, someone that's seen how world politics work. obama doesn't have the experience. he thinks he's just going to stroll over to iran and have a talk with the president over there. what is he dreaming. he needs to wake up this is the real world not some pretend where we all can talk like brothers.
all i've got to say about this is look at the company obama keeps. very bad company ,very racial. and the rest seem to be a bunch of crooks. since when do you discuss poitics in church. not in any church i've ever been in. so you are only as good as the company you keep.
i just wanted to address this part of your post. You may not be aware of this, but most ethnic churches DO discuss politics in church. Many immigrant churches are filled with congregants that come from politically oppressed nations. Liberation theology is a big part of church identity. Whether you agree with that or not (I'm sometimes on the fence myself) it is a reality. I attended such a church for many years, and although I didn't always agree with what was said, behind or in front of the pulpit, I understand where the people are coming from.
And if you're going to diss Obama on keeping company with Rev. Wright, what about McCain, who had to finally distance himself from a pastor, who's name I cannot recall at the moment, but who made some very nasty comments himself. Does that make McCain a less worthy opponent because he was originally endorsed by someone with very questionable views? You cannot paint a person with such a broad brush. Not only is it unfair, it's inaccurate.
It is said Obama could be the first black American president. How? Obama is 50% caucasion, from mothers side [whom he seldom talks about} 43.75% arabic & 6.25 African Negro.
His father was from Kenya, his family mainly arabs. Father is 12.5% African negro, 87.5% Arab. His fathers birth certificate even states he is Arab not African negro.
Obama says he never practiced Islam. He practiced Islam daily at school where he was registered as a muslim & kept his faith for 31 years until his wif made him change so he could run for office.
He has stated because he lived in indonesia he has more foreign experience. but he lived there when he between 6-10 years old & couldnt speak the language. another falsehood.
He says he was always against the Iraq war, false he was not in office to vote against it. when he did vote he voted to fund it every time.
He believes in fairness not tactics, but he used tactics to stop Alice Palmer from running against him. Who is this masked man? Would you really trust him in office? He wont pledge alliegence
to the flag properly. He took the oath of office on the Koran, not the bible. I do not trust him to make important decisions for me. I do not trust him period.
i just wanted to address this part of your post. You may not be aware of this, but most ethnic churches DO discuss politics in church. Many immigrant churches are filled with congregants that come from politically oppressed nations. Liberation theology is a big part of church identity. Whether you agree with that or not (I'm sometimes on the fence myself) it is a reality. I attended such a church for many years, and although I didn't always agree with what was said, behind or in front of the pulpit, I understand where the people are coming from.
And if you're going to diss Obama on keeping company with Rev. Wright, what about McCain, who had to finally distance himself from a pastor, who's name I cannot recall at the moment, but who made some very nasty comments himself. Does that make McCain a less worthy opponent because he was originally endorsed by someone with very questionable views? You cannot paint a person with such a broad brush. Not only is it unfair, it's inaccurate.
There is a big difference beween Obama's pastor of 20 years and the one associated with McCain. Obama has called Wright his mentor among other things-his inspiration. He was in the church for 20 years while this hatred was being spewed. His children were baptised in this church. When Obama was set to announce his run for the presidency it was Wright who was going to make the introduction at the event until people on Obama's campaign thought it would not be "wise". There is a huge difference in the relationship between Obama and McCain when it come to these pastors/ministers.
And no I am not a McCain supporter or an Obama supporter. I will be voting for someone else.
Obama says he never practiced Islam. He practiced Islam daily at school where he was registered as a muslim & kept his faith for 31 years until his wif made him change so he could run for office.
None of that is true. He attended a muslim school his mother chose when he was a child. Why? For the same reason a non-Catholic chooses to send their child to Catholic school because the public school are either unsafe or believe that a private school will give them a better education.
He was a member of the UCC church (which is a mainstream church, and the one in which I was raised)before he got married. His mother raised him without a religion, but encouraged her children to explore the many different religions in America. Obama chose to become a Christian.
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He has stated because he lived in indonesia he has more foreign experience. but he lived there when he between 6-10 years old & couldnt speak the language. another falsehood.
I have no idea if he speaks the language now or not, but he probably did as a child since he hung out with the local children. When you stop speaking a language when a person is a child, the child usually loses the ability to speak it. Obama started hanging out with the "wrong crowd", so his mother shipped him to his grandparents in Hawaii for them to finish raising him.
I do believe that people raised in many different cultures do have a viewpoint of the world that the rest of us miss. I believe that will help him relate to the world with greater empathy.
He says he was always against the Iraq war, false he was not in office to vote against it. when he did vote he voted to fund it every time.
He voted to fund the war to keep the necessary equipment going to the soldiers. Why should the soldiers be punished for the mistakes of their leaders. Keeping better equipment and supplies from soldiers would cause more of them to die. He is mature enough not to be childish about "well I don't like it so I will vote against you all the time and the soldiers be damned."
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He believes in fairness not tactics, but he used tactics to stop Alice Palmer from running against him. Who is this masked man? Would you really trust him in office?
He unfortunately is also a politician. If we used every one's mistakes and political dealing against them, no one would get elected. Politics is a dirty game that someone who wants to make good has to play. McCain does not have a perfect past either.
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He wont pledge alliegence
to the flag properly.
Since when??
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He took the oath of office on the Koran, not the bible.
Again, this is a lie. I remember watching him take the oath. It was on every local Chicago network. He took the oath on a Bible and there are photos and film to prove it.
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I do not trust him to make important decisions for me. I do not trust him period.
That's your decision, but I do think it is wrong to spread lies about him too. If you don't want to vote for him, then don't.
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or..."yes we can" ...
