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Old 08-29-2008, 09:40 PM
 
1,771 posts, read 2,997,022 times
Reputation: 971

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
Also the "pay-back" theory doesn't work... we have seen that with how well social security works. As illegal immigration increases along with other population increases you will see fewer people pay for more people therefore increasing the tax burden significantly.
Actually the majority of illegal immigrant utilize fraudulent social security numbers to gain employment (despite popular belief most illegals don't stand in line at home depot/get paid cash). These folks actually pay into the system but are not entitled to its benefits in return. One of my former classmates did his master's thesis on this topic (he's from AZ and so has a particular personal interest).

Just wanted to correct that assumption...not saying it does not hinder planning for fire/police/housing/schooling or that its a good thing in anyway (so please don't take it as that). This just seems to be one of those common misconceptions- and common misconceptions bother me
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:12 PM
 
Location: USA
527 posts, read 1,043,714 times
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No offense but I am correct and it is not a misconception. When an illegal Mexican crosses the border illegally and has children born on our side of the border... they become automatic US citizens in which they would be given an authentic social security number and therefore have access to EVERY social program that we have access to in this country.

And as for the jobs... its not the illegals themselves that take jobs away from us but their children that are born from illegals. They will be taught in the same public school system and therefore be competators for the same jobs that your children will apply for.

Like I said before, it is much more cost effective for all Americans to just remove the programs and illegal immigration than to create all this junk for first generation cheap labor migrant workers. I rather pay white Americans $10/hour to pick strawberrys and pay higher prices at the supermarket than pay thousands more on state, sales, and property taxes for social programs for non Americans and their offspring.

I know I must sound uncompassionate but compassion is hardly the way to run a state or union especially one as powerful and as great as ours. Rome was the pinnacle of greatness 2000 years ago. Have you ever gone to Italy and the rest of Europe now... its borderline 3rd world.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:34 PM
 
1,771 posts, read 2,997,022 times
Reputation: 971
No offense but I am correct and it is not a misconception. When an illegal Mexican crosses the border illegally and has children born on our side of the border... they become automatic US citizens in which they would be given an authentic social security number and therefore have access to EVERY social program that we have access to in this country.

There is a commonly held misconception that most illegal aliens don't pay taxes- that is what I was addressing. Also if you think about it- what's the difference between an illegal's kid going to a school (since their parent does pay taxes) and a non-illegal's kid going to a school (since their parent does pay taxes)?

And as for the jobs... its not the illegals themselves that take jobs away from us but their children that are born from illegals. They will be taught in the same public school system and therefore be competators for the same jobs that your children will apply for.

Works for me; if an illegal alien is able to compete with me or my child- more power to them, that's pretty impressive. I have a BS in Economics, Statistics, and Computer Engineer, an MBA, and am working on a PhD in Information Security... If any illegal aliens kid comes close- we should welcome them with open arms because they have accomplished more than 98%+ of non-illegal-aliens kids. I believe whoever can do the job the best should have it. Unfortunately as consumers we have shown that we want whoever can do the job the cheapest- to have it.

Like I said before, it is much more cost effective for all Americans to just remove the programs and illegal immigration than to create all this junk for first generation cheap labor migrant workers. I rather pay white Americans $10/hour to pick strawberrys and pay higher prices at the supermarket than pay thousands more on state, sales, and property taxes for social programs for non Americans and their offspring.

I'm going to assume you meant "not illegal alien" instead of "white"...otherwise there is a whole other bag of worms Enforcing existing regulations/laws is key. It's not really fair to underpay anyone; unfortunately the collective "we" has decided that cheap goods are worth it. That is the collective "our" fault (I spent an extra $4 to get an American made hammer today...most people don't).

I know I must sound uncompassionate but compassion is hardly the way to run a state or union especially one as powerful and as great as ours. Rome was the pinnacle of greatness 2000 years ago. Have you ever gone to Italy and the rest of Europe now... its borderline 3rd world.

True- but Rome got greedy trying to take over the rest of the world. Managing "the world" is pretty much impossible. Frankly given the size and complexity of the US- I'm surprised it works as well as it does. I think a lot of Europeans just reached a level of convenience and said "good enough"- I'm still amazed with my English friends tiny refrigerator and daily shopping; but he also takes a month long vacation, works 40 hours or less, and takes an hour lunch break. Not a bad deal! They also had the equivalent decimation of say, our Civil War and then some, a little over 60 years ago (WWII)- you figure that has to take a toll on infrastructure building as well.

On a side note- buy some Cabot "Seriously Sharp" Cheddar. I just had some and its amazing. Talk about a quality "Made in the USA" Product...mmm. (wanted to lighten the mood a little).

Last edited by BF66389; 08-29-2008 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Madbury, New Hampshire
877 posts, read 1,668,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jja100 View Post
I know I must sound uncompassionate but compassion is hardly the way to run a state or union especially one as powerful and as great as ours. Rome was the pinnacle of greatness 2000 years ago. Have you ever gone to Italy and the rest of Europe now... its borderline 3rd world.
Nonsense. Have you ever been to an Bangladeshi slum, or a refugee camp in Africa? THAT is the 3rd world. Perhaps you should compare your image of Italy with that of Flint, MI or New Orleans? Without compassion, we are without honor. Greatness is not a measure of the difference between us and them, it is a measure of the difference we make in the world.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:31 PM
 
Location: USA
527 posts, read 1,043,714 times
Reputation: 279
I don't want to turn this into a flame thread. (Moderators let this thread be) We have different viewpoints and I respect yours even if I disagree with it but I enjoy conversing with you.


There is a commonly held misconception that most illegal aliens don't pay taxes- that is what I was addressing.

A lot of illegals do not pay taxes... they get paid in cash and send it back to Mexico. They refuse to assimilate, they are not the same type of people as European legal immigrants.

Also if you think about it- what's the difference between an illegal's kid going to a school (since their parent does pay taxes) and a non-illegal's kid going to a school (since their parent does pay taxes)?

The difference is that my parents had to wait in line... end of story.


Works for me; if an illegal alien is able to compete with me or my child- more power to them, that's pretty impressive. I have a BS in Economics, Statistics, and Computer Engineer, an MBA, and am working on a PhD in Information Security... If any illegal aliens kid comes close- we should welcome them with open arms because they have accomplished more than 98%+ of non-illegal-aliens kids.

Anybody can compete with anybody unless you are the one that believes in racial inferiority which I do not.

And no, they shouldn't come close to get the job; they have to score better. If I get 98% on a firefighter exam and a Black/Indian/Hispanic or whomever scores 95%... I should get the job and vice versa.



I'm going to assume you meant "not illegal alien" instead of "white"...otherwise there is a whole other bag of worms Enforcing existing regulations/laws is key. It's not really fair to underpay anyone; unfortunately the collective "we" has decided that cheap goods are worth it. That is the collective "our" fault (I spent an extra $4 to get an American made hammer today...most people don't).

Yes I meant "not illegal alien" but most of America would be white if there was "legal immigration" from people of color. (Except Africans from slavery which was wrong, we never should have brought them over for much the same reasons as we allow the mexicans over.)

True- but Rome got greedy trying to take over the rest of the world. Managing "the world" is pretty much impossible. Frankly given the size and complexity of the US- I'm surprised it works as well as it does.

Actually, Rome held an empire that spanned from northern Africa to Hadrian's wall near the border of what is today England and Scotland for nearly a millenia. The fall of Rome was not from their greed, greed is what created Rome and the US today. It is complacency and being content and lenient which made them weak which weakened their enforcement of the borders and allowed the Visigoths to eventually sack Rome. The US trys to emulate ancient Rome way too much with being the only country to have military outposts all over the world. The problem is that they are focusing so much on their invisible expanded borders in the middle east and not enough on the one right South of California. We have only been considered a true super power since WWII and that was what, 60 years ago or so and we are already on the decline if we do not act as citizens. Rome lasted close to 1000 years!!


I think a lot of Europeans just reached a level of convenience and said "good enough"- I'm still amazed with my English friends tiny refrigerator and daily shopping; but he also takes a month long vacation, works 40 hours or less, and takes an hour lunch break. Not a bad deal! They also had the equivalent decimation of say, our Civil War and then some, a little over 60 years ago (WWII)- you figure that has to take a toll on infrastructure building as well.

Europe has been on the decline since 1000 AD after the Roman Empire fell.The people born between the Dark Ages and the Industrial Revolution of the early 1900's lived worse than under the ruled authoritarian government of that which was Rome. Any growth that Europe has had since WWII can be attributed by the globalization policies of the US.

I have probly taken this thread waaaay too far off topic so I will stop


On a side note- buy some Cabot "Seriously Sharp" Cheddar. I just had some and its amazing. Talk about a quality "Made in the USA" Product...mmm. (wanted to lighten the mood a little).

I am writing it down now, I am gonna try cheese out as soon as I get back to the grocery store
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:48 PM
 
Location: ~~In my mind~~
2,119 posts, read 4,738,323 times
Reputation: 1594
Everyone here knows the rules, the closure of a thread is entirely up to the posters. You (meaning anyone) starts trouble and the thread will be closed. Stay on topic, and be respectful, that is all I ask.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:49 PM
 
Location: USA
527 posts, read 1,043,714 times
Reputation: 279
Nonsense. Have you ever been to an Bangladeshi slum, or a refugee camp in Africa?

No I have not and never plan to lol.

Without compassion, we are without honor.

Which is precisely why we are in Iraq and building their infrastructure and not our own starting with a wall on our southern border. Compassion is weakness. It is not nice to say but it is unfortunately the truth. And Honor does not win wars... Rome was able to defeat Atilla the Hun not with violence but buy sending a beautiful woman to poison him. The Romans also chose her because she looked like Atilla's first wife that died at childbirth. There was no honor in that but they won.

Greatness is not a measure of the difference between us and them,

Sure it is.

it is a measure of the difference we make in the world.

In that case get ready for the invasion of Iran after McCain gets elected.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:49 PM
 
Location: ~~In my mind~~
2,119 posts, read 4,738,323 times
Reputation: 1594
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmcewan View Post
Nonsense. Have you ever been to an Bangladeshi slum, or a refugee camp in Africa? THAT is the 3rd world. Perhaps you should compare your image of Italy with that of Flint, MI or New Orleans? Without compassion, we are without honor. Greatness is not a measure of the difference between us and them, it is a measure of the difference we make in the world.
Great post rmcewan.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:51 PM
 
Location: USA
527 posts, read 1,043,714 times
Reputation: 279
Now can someone please bring this back to NH taxes so this thread can stay open?
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:58 PM
 
Location: USA
527 posts, read 1,043,714 times
Reputation: 279
Perhaps you should compare your image of Italy with that of Flint, MI or New Orleans?

I have been to Italy and I happen to be Italian. Yes, the US has its bad spots but they are spots, not the whole of the country lol.

30% of America has a net worth of $1million or more including the value of their home. That is significantly more than any other country in the world and that is why I love my country and want to keep it that way.
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