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What a beautiful system. I like that a lot! Out in CA all you get is a ballot in the mail. But before you get the ballot on all the propositions that were made by politicians... they spam the airways with "vote no on prop 52" "vote yes on prop 38" etc etc and they just brainwash voters to vote a certain way.
Don't get me started on gay marriage but the people of CA voted against it surprisingly; but one judge was able to overturn and pass it. Just great!!!
I hope you can tell I am being sarcastic
WOW! This thread took off like wildfire! I don't usually read the NH forum too much, but I thought I'd take a look at this thread because I've also been thinking about the tax structure in other states a lot lately.
Like jja100, I'm currently living in CA but am originally from upstate NY. Our tax system is very different in CA, hence the confusion for jja100. He (or she) failed to mention that we have something called Prop. 13 that has been in existence since the mid-1970's. It was a true people's revolt, something those in NH can really appreciate! Because people were being taxed out of their homes, two men named Howard Jarvis and Paul Gann spearheaded a movement to qualify an initiative for the ballot that would limit the amount of property tax all over the state to no more than %1.5. no one pays over that amount.
However, local govts. still find sneaky ways to circumvent this and add more taxes via fees, bonds for schools,etc. In fact, I live in a newer area that has had a lot of growth, and we have had one school bond after another voted in. They can add hundreds of dollars to your yearly tax bill. We also have state income tax and sales tax, which they now want to raise because our state budget is in very serious trouble. Also, we have no such thing as "town taxes and county taxes". We just have state and federal taxes, and property taxes and of course, things like vehicle registration, etc. We pay for schools through our property taxes. Houses get reassessed from time to time, but not as much as they do in other states, where towns typically do this every year.
We send our daughters to private school, so I also feel I'm paying twice for education, but that's my own choice. What I think is intrinsically unfair, and maybe unconstitutional, are the school bonds. Voters pass these with %55 of the vote (it used to be 2/3 required for new taxes but that changed a couple of years ago ) What upsets me is that those who do not pay property taxes are allowed to vote on the bonds! How unfair is that? Their kids get the benefit of the school bonds for school construction or improvements, but they don't have to pay a dime for it. IMHO, property taxes are unfair and un-American. I agree with jja100 when he says that they almost penalize you for owning a home, instead of making it easy and affordable. Not every home owner is a rich fat cat, but that's what they make it seem like when they keep piling the taxes on top of you! Most people are just struggling to pay their mortgages these days, especially in CA where I live. The downturn in the economy and real estate market has hit our state very hard.
I love NH's spirit and their stubborn independence. I hope you can keep it! But I have no desire to move there (winters too harsh, summers too humid w/ mosquitoes!) I would like to own a summer home in upstate NY where I'm from, but the property taxes would make that impossible. Yes, I could try renting it out for part of the year to help defray the costs, but a friend of mine does that, and had to pay more taxes, as the home was reassessed when they found out it was being used as a rental, and they had to pay a tax because it used as a tourist accomodation or something.
Heyo looking4home!! Yeah I briefly mentioned our awesome prop 13 law on the 3 page of this thread but too bad that is the only law that is good in our state. I bought in when prices were about 200k close to 20 years ago and now my house is paid off and the current valuation is about 600k now. Peeps from NH snapped a little when I said the property taxes were extremely high in NH but that is only because I happen to be in a unique position and pay very little compared to the value of my home. The thing is that if I ever do decide to move out of state, getting back in if I make a mistake would be impossible unless I wanted to pay a fortune for the same thing I had.
But after reading a lot about NH there property taxes are extremely high but the amount of acereage that you get and square footage is much cheaper than CA for the same money. For the same money you can buy 600k home cash in bedford, amherst and exters with 3 acres and 3k-5k square feet. The property tax is high at 9-13k per year but you don't pay practically any other tax.
In CA I pay about 3500/year property tax on 600k home BUT I have to pay:
600/year garbage (some municipalities pay for this in your property tax in NH!)
Water is about 600/year
Sewage water is about 250/year (NH peeps know nothing of this rediculous expense)
State tax at 9%... I spent about 5k in state tax with my income last year there abouts.
Sales tax 7.25 on all goods except food and meds... probly spend 500 minimum per year on that.
Car insurance is about 1200 per year and I have no accidents and a perfect driving record. In NH you do not need to pay it at all if you don't want to and even if you do it is half the amount
That comes to a grand total of ~$11650 with a net increase of $2600 compared to NH. Secondly... what most people forget is that property tax is 100% deductible on your income but all these other little taxes and utilities that we have to pay are not tax deductible.
And for those that recently bought a home in CA similar to mine it would cost them even more... add another 3500/year for just property tax and add another 3000/ year for HOA fees if you live in a condo or PUD which every new home has in CA cause we are socialist here lol. BTW HOA is not tax deductible either!!
So a typical Californian pays about $18150 to breath the air in their house and this is all WITHOUT a mortgage!! It didn't come to me how inexpensive NH was untill I read more about their state and these forums and added it all up. The only thing that is bad about the property tax is that retirees on a fixed income will have a hard time living since state income tax and sales tax does not affect them anymore and they cannot get the savings that the working individuals do. Even the NH reduction of about 1k property tax on 9k isn't going to do much for them and they will most likely die before they get the second tier reduction... especially men. We don't have as high as a life expectancy as women do lol.
I am not understanding the part where the majority of the property taxes are going. Is it 50% that goes to schools for towns such as Amhearst and Bedford? Is there a website to go to to see how the mill rate is broken down for each town and how they arrive at that particular rate? I am not familiar with your system because I live in CA not NH. I have only been to your beautiful state once passing through to Canada. Never lived in a state with Town Hall Meetings.
As you noticed, LosingControl gave a lovely explanation. Mostly I kept trying to tell you that the majority of the taxes stay in the community. Canterbury taxes have nothing to do with Amherst or Bedford schools. Neither does Hollis. Each town is to itself. I think I directed you to the pdf that lists the taxes and breakdowns for each town - you can see there how much the state takes, how much the town has and all that fun stuff that equals the total. I know you live in CA, but we kept saying that the town decided everything and you kept not hearing us and insisting that it was the state. I'm glad you understand now.
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Can't go to a town meeting because I don't live in NH, not sure if I made that clear to you. I am not going to go to a town hall meeting until I get closer to when I am ready to buy a home. Then I will fly out there and see if they allow non-residents into them.
yeah, I know that. My point was if you move here, THEN go to your town meetings. That's where everything is discussed and voted on. Truly it's all local. It's not like CA or MD where everything is worked out in back rooms and we just get a nasty bill in the mail and no debate at all. BTW, PA is like this also.
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I know this because my cousin is a CA school teacher and the candy method is what some of her fellow colleagues are using which neither she nor I agree with. AGAIN, I am not from NH. I am speaking about CA and was wondering if they do the same wacky stuff up there.
but you phrased it as if this is what all teachers everywhere do. You know CA is wacky, so if they do wacky things in school there why are you expecting/assuming it's the norm elsewhere? I know some teachers may use incentives in MD (not necessarily candy) and it comes out of their own personal pocket. It's just that you wrote slamming the school budgets and then went on assuming that it's high because it's being abused. everywhere. I'm saying, it's not necessarily. and you do get to hear every dollar requested explained a town meeting. Cause everyone wants to be thrifty.
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I never claimed this to be about NH real estate agents... perhaps I was over generalizing but the CA real esetate market and laws happen to be used by a number of other smaller states. I was really referring to the one I spoke to regarding the property in Bedford that I mentioned. But that is definately how they are in California which I was making my example about since I am from CA not NH.
There are always bad examples in every field. But that doesn't mean one should assume that because you run into one bad one, they're all like that. Especially slamming the entire profession when replying to an extremely wonderful example who has always been very helpful and insightful. Just please, when you start making these grand, sweeping generalizations about how crappy XYZ is... remember you're looking at CA and not at NH - and stop writing as if you know it works that way everywhere else as well. NH is much more sensible.
Hello fellow NoVa relocatee... My wife and I just moved up here (well, a year ago) from Arlington and previously Ashburn.
.........
BF66389:
Thanks for the info. It's good to know that someone has made the transition from NoVa to NH successfully.
You mentioned cheaper gas, but for several years now it seems that our neck of the woods (Dale City) has some of the cheapest gas in Virginia. This morning I paid $3.34 - other stations had $3.37-$3.39. Cheap booze isn't a factor - neither of us drink! I agree with you about better grocery stores - we rented a house on Forest Lake in Winchester and spent as much time getting to know the Keene area as we could, and the grocery stores were impressive.
What I'm going to need to do over the next few months is gather up numbers on what we are spending here, and get more information on specific NH towns - price of homes, level of property tax, etc. - and really compare the two situations. I'm assuming - and please let me know if I'm wrong - that, just as in Virginia, a person in New Hampshire itemizing deductions on their federal tax return would be able to deduct the real estate tax on their federal return.
For the last couple of years I've been getting Cheshire County real estate listings from an agent in Keene, and I've been reading the Keene Sentinel online, so I have some knowledge about the area and housing there. But there are many areas of New Hampshire that are very attractive to us. We just have to draw the line somewhere ... one of my sisters lives in Guildhall, VT, and that's WAY too much winter for us, so I think we can considered places like Lancaster and Littleton to be not on our list.
Thanks for the info. It's good to know that someone has made the transition from NoVa to NH successfully.
You mentioned cheaper gas, but for several years now it seems that our neck of the woods (Dale City) has some of the cheapest gas in Virginia. This morning I paid $3.34 - other stations had $3.37-$3.39. Cheap booze isn't a factor - neither of us drink! I agree with you about better grocery stores - we rented a house on Forest Lake in Winchester and spent as much time getting to know the Keene area as we could, and the grocery stores were impressive.
What I'm going to need to do over the next few months is gather up numbers on what we are spending here, and get more information on specific NH towns - price of homes, level of property tax, etc. - and really compare the two situations. I'm assuming - and please let me know if I'm wrong - that, just as in Virginia, a person in New Hampshire itemizing deductions on their federal tax return would be able to deduct the real estate tax on their federal return.
For the last couple of years I've been getting Cheshire County real estate listings from an agent in Keene, and I've been reading the Keene Sentinel online, so I have some knowledge about the area and housing there. But there are many areas of New Hampshire that are very attractive to us. We just have to draw the line somewhere ... one of my sisters lives in Guildhall, VT, and that's WAY too much winter for us, so I think we can considered places like Lancaster and Littleton to be not on our list.
Again, thanks for the informative post.
Yes to deducting your property taxes as well as a portion of your car registration.
Elec: 100-200
Gas: 0
Oil: way way way too much
Water: 0
Waste water: 0
Trash /recycle: 20
Phone: 15
Internet(+basic cable): 60
Sat TV: 60
Compassion: priceless :-P
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Originally Posted by jja100
Anybody from NH wanna post some of their utility bills to compare?
man, we are paying way too much for phone! for local & long distance, plus call waiting & caller ID.. I think our land-line bill is around $90! geez. Our sat TV is the same, though: about $60. Don't move to MD (flippin' nanny state), it's way too expensive.
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) What upsets me is that those who do not pay property taxes are allowed to vote on the bonds! How unfair is that? Their kids get the benefit of the school bonds for school construction or improvements, but they don't have to pay a dime for it. IMHO, property taxes are unfair and un-American. I agree with jja100 when he says that they almost penalize you for owning a home, instead of making it easy and affordable. Not every home owner is a rich fat cat, but that's what they make it seem like when they keep piling the taxes on top of you! Most people are just struggling to pay their mortgages these days, especially in CA where I live. The downturn in the economy and real estate market has hit our state very hard. 
But I have no desire to move there (winters too harsh, summers too humid w/ mosquitoes!) I would like to own a summer home in upstate NY where I'm from, but the property taxes would make that impossible. Yes, I could try renting it out for part of the year to help defray the costs, but a friend of mine does that, and had to pay more taxes, as the home was reassessed when they found out it was being used as a rental, and they had to pay a tax because it used as a tourist accomodation or something.
