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I'm estimating here but a property tax of 9k/yr in bedford sounds like an upper end home, and probably equates to renting that same house for $3500/mo if not more. That's really a far stretch to renting an apt for $1000/mo. I'm just using my own personal experience owning homes and apt buildings in the Nashua/Merrimack/Goffstown area, a couple towns over from Bedford.
Good thread - I hope to hear more from those in New Hampshire. My wife and I have been seriously considering moving to New Hampshire now that we have retired. In particular we have visited the Keene area and really like it there.
But I also am concerned about the high property taxes. I know the reasons for the high taxes .... to make up for no state income tax or sales tax, to provide good schools, etc. The taxes are just so much higher than I'm used to (Northern Virginia - not the cheapest place to live by any stretch) that to see a house that would really suit us well, and then to see the annual property taxes on it .... well, it's jarring.
I buy the argument that good schools help with property values and resale, but frankly, we won't derive any direct benefit from the good schools (having two grown children), and improved resale value on a house we plan to live in for the rest of our lives, well, that's not a big consideration for us (although the aforementioned two grown children might have a different take on this).
As retired federal employees, we could buy the same house in Mass (or NY, or any of a number of states) and not have any state income tax, and pay significantly less in property taxes than we would pay in NH (depending on the area, of course, but then, we wouldn't live in Boston or New York City). We'd have sales tax to consider, but it's possible that the total tax burden for us would be less in Mass than in NH.
That said, NH is still on our short list, and perhaps if we can avoid some of the truly (IMHO) outrageously high property tax areas of the state (like Keene, unfortunately), we'll be able to find something that makes sense ... or cents.
One thing about NH you should understand......we OWN government here, government does not OWN us. We control spending from town to town. We have no income & sales tax or capital gains tax. We are one of the lowest overall taxed states in the nation.
Our state reps make one hundred dollars a year, and we like it that way. We are proud & free, and if you are really worried about your personal taxes and nothing else perhaps NH is not for you.
Last edited by Brave Stranger; 08-29-2008 at 10:54 AM..
Good thread - I hope to hear more from those in New Hampshire. My wife and I have been seriously considering moving to New Hampshire now that we have retired. In particular we have visited the Keene area and really like it there.
But I also am concerned about the high property taxes. I know the reasons for the high taxes .... to make up for no state income tax or sales tax, to provide good schools, etc. The taxes are just so much higher than I'm used to (Northern Virginia - not the cheapest place to live by any stretch) that to see a house that would really suit us well, and then to see the annual property taxes on it .... well, it's jarring.
I buy the argument that good schools help with property values and resale, but frankly, we won't derive any direct benefit from the good schools (having two grown children), and improved resale value on a house we plan to live in for the rest of our lives, well, that's not a big consideration for us (although the aforementioned two grown children might have a different take on this).
As retired federal employees, we could buy the same house in Mass (or NY, or any of a number of states) and not have any state income tax, and pay significantly less in property taxes than we would pay in NH (depending on the area, of course, but then, we wouldn't live in Boston or New York City). We'd have sales tax to consider, but it's possible that the total tax burden for us would be less in Mass than in NH.
That said, NH is still on our short list, and perhaps if we can avoid some of the truly (IMHO) outrageously high property tax areas of the state (like Keene, unfortunately), we'll be able to find something that makes sense ... or cents.
why the heck are so many people complaining about having to pay taxes for schools just because they do not have kids in school? gosh....do we want a bunch of uneducated idiots all over the place? i pay higher property taxes here in texas than people in new hampshire. i didn't complain about it when i didn't have any kids. i just don't get it. and no....i am not a liberal tax loving nut.
Compare the cost of real estate and property taxes for similar houses in Bedford Nh and a town like Westford in MA. The property tax rate will be lower in Westford but the actual dollars you pay will be pretty close. The property will cost 50% more. You'll pay income tax, sales tax, capital gains tax... And your car insurance will be 50 to 100% higher..
why the heck are so many people complaining about having to pay taxes for schools just because they do not have kids in school? gosh....do we want a bunch of uneducated idiots all over the place? i pay higher property taxes here in texas than people in new hampshire. i didn't complain about it when i didn't have any kids. i just don't get it. and no....i am not a liberal tax loving nut.
For the last 8 years I've paid taxes for schools without having kids in the public school system. My taxes help pay for the fire department - haven't used them, either (knock on wood); social services - ditto; etc., etc. Frankly, I would opt to pay more in taxes if the additional amount would go to improving the roads in Northern Virginia.
I just think that people looking to move to New Hampshire, perhaps attracted in part by the lack of state income tax and sales tax, need to look at the whole picture, and need to know up front that, depending on the community, their property tax may be significantly higher than they are used to.
For example, a house in my county valued at $435K would get hit with a $4,219 property tax bill for 2008. In Keene, a house on the market today for $435K lists the 2008 property taxes as $11,716. That's a significant difference.
I would think that in many cases, in looking at the total tax picture, the lack of state income tax or sales tax would more than make up the difference in property tax. Hopefully, people thinking about moving the New Hampshire will do just that - will look at the total picture and not merely the lack of state income tax or sales tax.
I have to say, I do wish NH had a type of voucher system for schools. My children are in a private school and a break would be nice. Regardless, I do have a choice and I choose to pay for the private school.
For example, a house in my county valued at $435K would get hit with a $4,219 property tax bill for 2008. In Keene, a house on the market today for $435K lists the 2008 property taxes as $11,716. That's a significant difference.
Would the $435K house in Keene be comparable to the $435K house in your N. VA county?
We were paying about $2500/yr Los Angeles County prop tax on the house we sold in CA. However, that is only because L.A. caps the rate at which your tax can increase as your property appreciates. The rate is 11.75 per $1000 - that's higher than many NH towns. The chap buying it will be paying $9,000 /yr for the same house because a new valuation kicks in on the $735K we sold for. That house was 1600 sq ft on a 60x100 ft lot. Our household CA income taxes were > 19K/yr and we paid 8.25% sales tax on almost everything.
To have the home we have in NH back in Los Angeles County, we'd have needed to pay about $1.5M, with $7000+/mth mortgage and about $18K/yr property tax. + insurance premiums covering earthquake and forest fire.
Those who resent paying taxes towards a school system should consider who paid for or subsidized their education. They should consider who should pay for the education of the soldiers, sailors, airmen, cops, firemen, nurses, doctors, and civil servants (among many others) who currently protect, care for, and help them and the next generations who will do so when they are too old and feeble to care for themselves or when their country is at war. Do you think an illiterate person can fly an F22, maintain a nuclear power plant or command a platoon?
If you do not believe that after physical defense, a government's greatest responsibility is that of education then perhaps you do not fully appreciate what it means to live in a free and civilized society. Perhaps a 1 year sojourn to Burma, Zimbabwe, or Iran might help?
Again NH really does not have that high a property tax. I haved lived in OH and my house in NH has the same SF as the house in OH did. I pay only 6% more in property taxes. They had a 6.5% income tax and a 6.5% sales tax. I pay only 600 dollars more for a house and land in the most beautiful state in the country. I have 3 times the amount of land that i did in OH. The homes are higher priced here but I have little control over that. Still my house here is 60,000 more than in OH but the taxes are only 600 more. I lived in WI for most of my life and they too had a part time legislature they proceeded to go to a full time legislature and they rank in the top 7 in the country for taxation. Before they were in the bottom 10. Taxes never go down and services will always need to be upgraded to please the easy money and overblown social programs people. Somebody paid for me to go to school and I too will pay for them.
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