Property Tax New Hampshire (Bedford, Hollis: car rental, sales, real estate)

[jja100]

I am considering moving to New Hampshire but have some reservations about the insanely high property tax that doesn't seem to have an annual cap.

I understand that the state has one of the lowest tax revenues simply because NH has neither a state or sales tax and jobs are much harder to find but I can't get over the idea of such a high property tax!

If I decide to move there I can easily afford to pay cash for my home and still have 200-300k leftover living in a nice area such as Bedford but that would come with paying an annual 9k property tax.

The math doesn't add up. Apartments are only 1k per month to rent... people can rent and it is almost cheaper than the property tax alone let alone insurance and the other added expenses of a condo/home.

I can just invest the proceeds from the sale in my home in a money market and the interest alone would pay for all my living expenses for the whole year. There is absolutely no insentive to own a home in NH! Is this done on purpose? This state doesn't seem as conservative as a thought. Maybe I am missing something? I also see that most people that live in NH are not retirees and I can see why. The property taxes are half of most peoples social security! I don't think it is right to kick people out of their homes if they have their house paid for in cash and are just trying to retire in the state they grew up in.

All I hear from people moving to NH is about how great the schools are but I don't have any kids so why should the brunt of taxes for education be paid through property tax and not some other form of tax such as sales tax and income tax. And even if I did have a child and decided to put him/her in private school, why should i have to pay for the education of others (seems like education is another social program). I know I must sound way out right wing but I hate social programs like this as well as social security but that is another post.

Back to education... there also seems to be no limit as to how many schools the town constructs which therefore can raise NH citizens property tax in the hundreds of dollars per year. Bah, I am depressed trying to find a way out of this state filled with left wing loons (California)! I was born a New Englander (Connecticut) but until you come out to California you have know idea how far liberalism can go! Please help me! Is there something wrong with my rationale?

[jja100]

Oh and I forgot to add that if someone were to live off of their capital gains and just rent in your state they would have all of the benefits of living there without contributing one dime to your state economy.

Also, people can remain completely liquid... real estate doesn't seem to move quickly in NH like it does in the tri-state area and California/Washington on the west.

[Rexicana]

I think other people will chime in on the tax issues, but one big thing that I have found different about NH than CA or MA is the amount of charitable giving going on. A lot of great charities float on private support. I wonder if a lot of that support might be coming from those who you describe who are without income and renting, or owning a low cost home . . .just a thought. There is a great "community support" feeling here.

[nicolem]

Well you asked if there is something wrong with your rationale and I will give you my take. I don't mean any disrespect- I just like to tell it as I see it.

NH does not have an income or sales tax. We have higher property taxes than some states. However-NH is consistently ranked as one of the states with the overall lowest tax burden. If you think that implementing a sales or an income tax will in any way diminish or significantly lower your property taxes, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you. Look at NJ or NY to see what happens when a new tax is implemented-all taxes go up. The more $$ and new sources of revenue taxpayers give to politicians-the more the politicians want. It is a never ending appetite. It seems to me that you want an income tax and no property tax-that way you can move here and pay no taxes just because you have no children in school. I am about as conservative as they come-people on here will vouch for that- but I think that one of the few things that all of us should contribute to is schools. I am not talking about out of control wasteful spending but basic education of our children. Using your reasoning-why should a working couple who never has kids get saddled with an income tax? Should only those with kids in school pay? How would that work? Should one only pay until their last child graduates? I mean if you don't want to pay because yo have no kids in school-why should anyone with no kids have to pay? Again I am as conservative as they come but I see no problem with all of us having a portion of our taxes go towards a good education. And I mean education. I don't mean all the out of control wacky things that go along with it.


I don't understand how you can say that there is no incentive to own a home. Unless you are talking strictly financial and for those such as yourself who own their home free and clear. I personally think there are many incentives of owning a home-both financial and non-financial. It beats living in an apartment, if you have a mortgage you get a tax deduction. You are not at the mercy of a landlord who can change the rules and raise your rent. It provides stability and you can lay down roots. As someone who lived in an apartment for years and recently purchased a home-to me there is no comparison. I would hate to ever have to go back to an apartment again. Plus why should the state have to provide an incentive to own a home? That sounds like some type of California weird logic to me to be honest.

Actually- we are getting more and more retirees to the state and we are losing the younger crowd- opposite of what you mentioned. As far as those who cannot afford property taxes because they are on only social security-perhaps they should have planned better for the future. Also in many towns seniors get a break on their property taxes. How about the fact that many young people cannot buy a first home until much later because many out of state eldelrly people-and others- move in and when the market was hot-raised home prices? Guess what both situations stink-but life is not fair and it never will be. Adding more tax $$ to the coffers only promotes out of control spending-it will not lower taxes.

I find it pretty surprising that you label yourself as a conservative but you never once bring up getting a control on spending as a way of lowering taxes. Instead you throw out the income and sales tax. Just an observation.

NH has other taxes that you will pay. 8% rooms and meals, we have tolls, we have car registration based on the weight and age of your car. There is a real estate transfer tax. There were many hidden fees and taxes recently raised by our out of control state and house reps. There is NO WAY I want to give them any more $$ in the form of an income or sales tax.

Also-depending on your situation-there is a 5% NH interest and dividends tax.

Again- I mean no disrespect- just like to answer honestly and not sugar coat. If you have any further questions- I will be happy to answer them.

Nicolem

[jthibodeau]

You make a lot of good points and I'll be first in line with much of what you've said, jja100. However, I'll respond to a couple of your items which don't "add up" to me.

Originally Posted by jja100

Apartments are only 1k per month to rent... people can rent and it is almost cheaper than the property tax alone let alone insurance and the other added expenses of a condo/home.

I have a feeling that your 1K per month condo is no where near that $10,000 per year taxed Bedford residence you spoke of.

Originally Posted by jja100

why should the brunt of taxes for education be paid through property tax and not some other form of tax such as sales tax and income tax.

Because if we allow the State another form of taxation, that form of tax will only increase and it will not/never lower property taxes.

Originally Posted by jja100

And even if I did have a child and decided to put him/her in private school, why should i have to pay for the education of others (seems like education is another social program).

Sigh.....it's the law. All ya gotta do is change the law.....

Originally Posted by jja100

there also seems to be no limit as to how many schools the town constructs which therefore can raise NH citizens property tax in the hundreds of dollars per year.

You bet it can, and does. However, I have found a little good within the bad. You see, when property taxes pays for the schools, your property taxes are very high. Your right when you say it hurts. It does!

Now, when you feel that hurt and the school board wants a new school, you can bet that "that hurt" enters into the equation when voting times come. If the voters want another school, well, it's gonna hurt a bit more. Maybe a lot more!

If you leave school funding to other sources, such as sale or income tax, it's not going to "hurt" so bad all at once. Just little bites over the course of time. Kind of like mosquitoes biting you.....just a little here and there.

As much as I hate my property tax bill and complain just as loud as you, I'll take the big hurt so I'll remember very well when it comes to voting time.

And thanks for speaking your mind. That's what this place is for.

[jthibodeau]

Originally Posted by jja100

Oh and I forgot to add that if someone were to live off of their capital gains and just rent in your state they would have all of the benefits of living there without contributing one dime to your state economy.

I've yet to meet a landlord who would not consider at least part of your rent to go to property taxes. So, in the long run, you are contributing to our State's coffers.

[newhampshiregirl]

Once again, Nicolem beat me to the punch.

All I have to say is....what she said.

[BF66389]

Actually even if you don't have kids in school you still benefit from having a good school system. Not only is the value of a home in a good school system significantly higher and it will sell faster; but there is also a link between good schools and crime/other quality of life indicators- reason being is that those who care to pay a little more to live in an area with good schools are generally also care about other things as well.

Also many towns have tax reduction programs in place for older residents. In my town (Hollis), once you are age 65 the assessed value of your home is reduced by almost $150k that then scales to over a $200k reduction by age 80- it's a great way to keep a town affordable for its retired residents but still get them to vote based on what they believe is best for the town vs. fear of losing their homes due to expenses.

I would also encourage you to attend your towns budget committee meetings- I was surprised with how concerned these folks were for limiting the proposals that would increase the tax burden on residents during these tough times. The towns seem to be trying very hard to NOT hurt residents (or at least Hollis) with tax expenses.

As for overall cost of living- just look at any of the total state tax burden charts online, NH is pretty low.

[lisa g]

Originally Posted by jja100

California you have know idea how far liberalism can go! Please help me! Is there something wrong with my rationale?

Very true! Although Mass is a close second.

[WannaComeHome]

I'm going to chime in here as well - although some of it has been covered.

jja, I don't know what area you're coming from, so it's a little hard to compare properly. Sorry, I just saw the bottom of your post that you were born in CT and are currently in CA. trust me, NH is better than CA.

I am considering moving to New Hampshire but have some reservations about the insanely high property tax that doesn't seem to have an annual cap.

First you have to remember that the taxes are set by each individual town, and most of the towns are small. You actually have some say in what goes on. It's not like here in MD where you are simply mailed a bill most of which is county or state and you're just SoL. I can understand your concern about taxes gone wild, but this is NH where things just don't change all that much. Have you seen the Dept of Revenue page that has pdf's of all the town taxes for many years? You can compare each town and you can check the different years and see how stable or unstable they are. Go to NH Department of Revenue Administration - Divisions - Municipal Services and look under "Property Tax Rates & Related Data" In general, the towns just don't jump taxes around for the heck of it. go to your town meetings, the budget (and taxes) are discussed and decided there.

There is absolutely no insentive to own a home in NH! Is this done on purpose?

What incentive are you looking for? NH doesn't do social programs much, so look to yourself for your own incentive or lack of. If you don't wnat to own your own home, then rent. If you want to have the responsibility and independence of your own home, then buy. No one is forcing you to do either one. Look inside yourself rather than the state... what do you want to do?

I find it pretty surprising that you label yourself as a conservative but you never once bring up getting a control on spending as a way of lowering taxes. Instead you throw out the income and sales tax. Just an observation.

because every other state in the country that has either of both of those does NOT have lower taxes. so why on earth would we think that creating a tax would lower taxes? it just doesn't. Control is dependent on the reasons for the taxes. And it all goes by the town. It's hard for people outside of New England (and maybe NY or PA) to understand this. Some towns are very fiscally conservative, some are not. Choose your town carefully. Find out what they are spending the money on and whether you agree with it. If you don't.. don't move there! It's very rude to move to a place and then try to change it from how it's been. Kinda like women who date/marry a guy and then decide they have to change him to what they want (why are they with him then in the first place?!).

I don't have any kids so why should the brunt of taxes for education be paid through property tax and not some other form of tax such as sales tax and income tax

very common complaint among people with no kids (and we are among that, so I know whereof I speak). The theory is that kids are our future, so decent education is to the benefit of the entire community. that's why the education burden is spread evenly rather than just for families with kids. If you choose to put your kid in private school, you will still pay taxes for the public school because that's how our country decided to fund education. Public school is the norm, if you choose to deviate from that, it's your choice but you don't get tax breaks on it. There are a few states that have a voucher system because the public schools are so bad... NH isn't one of them. Suck it up like the rest of us no-kid couples. MD has both sales and income tax as well as high property tax (equal to NH) and we still have to pay for the schools. Cope with it.

I can't get over the idea of such a high property tax!

it's not that high. Compared to a great many states, it's lower. Ok, maybe compared to WV it's high, but ..... Remember, no matter where you are, people are going to complain that their taxes are too high, it's a normal thing to hear - just compare what you're getting to where you are. If where you are is so much better, why on earth move?

f someone were to live off of their capital gains and just rent in your state they would have all of the benefits of living there without contributing one dime to your state economy.

Sorry, you missed the part in the taxes where you get taxed I think 5% on capital gains. You will be contributing. Let's see, do you ever eat out? you will contribute an additional 8% meal tax. Will you be visiting and renting a car? car rentals - especially at the airport have very high taxes. Do you need to stay at a hotel while you visit? ok, more taxes. Sure those are short term, but the capital gains isn't - that's a constant, as is the prepared food tax.

You're also forgetting that a lot of the town taxes go for additional things like road upkeep and snow removal and such things. That's all handled on a town by town basis (except for state roads that the state takes care of, but the majority of roads in town are town handles). The tax charts usually have a breakdown of how much goes to what. You can see how things are handled. Just choose wisely.

the main thing is, investigate, examine, look over all aspects of NH and especially town life - the towns vary quite a bit. And if it still doesn't make sense, don't move to NH. Find a different state. Try WV, I hear it's pretty cheap there.