Workforce Housing law (Washington: buy, public school, college)

[BF66389]

Originally Posted by lisa g

BF, your example of the probable low-income individual - perhaps even from SW VA, who may be uninformed or misinformed is still not qualified for the break imo. People need to be responsible enough to educate themselves properly. I was expected to, and had my shares of ups and downs, have been taken advantage of and learned by experience without any safety net, why shouldn't everyone? This stuff has never seemed simple to me, I had to work hard to learn it and continue to learn without assistance. Being misinformed and losing out from time to time is unfortunate, but it certainly does not excuse independence or motivation to continue to try. Isn't there tremendous pride in independence? Or is that a thing of the past?

I should have stipulated, their credit information came from a seminar at their place of work (by a supposed CFP) who handed out "suggestions to improve your credit" sheets that had this wrong garbage on them. As well as a presentation at the town hall that they attended...all 2-3 years before they planned to purchase so that they could "get smart"...so much for that. How independant can you get when you're being lied to? I know it sounds SOO wrong, but I saw similar incidents several times. It wasn't malicious, I don't know what it was...but wow.

We reported the idiot to the CFP Board of Standards

Either way, I stand by my point that credit score & stated income are garbage for determining someones ability to pay for a home... Look at the current homes getting foreclosed on- a large percentage had high incomes (on paper) and stellar credit...

[sgthoskins]

Originally Posted by BF66389

Either way, I stand by my point that credit score & stated income are garbage for determining someones ability to pay for a home... Look at the current homes getting foreclosed on- a large percentage had high incomes (on paper) and stellar credit...

Yep...

[notdancingqueen]

Originally Posted by BF66389

Greg,
I agree with you completely that there was a conscious discrimination effort in the construction of suburbia (semi-related example: did you know many bridges on Long Island were constructed too low for buses...to prevent inner city blacks from reaching the beaches- an actual documented reason for their design specifications).

Thank you, Robert Moses. Not to go too far off-topic but for those interested in urban planning, The Power Broker is a *fascinating* book about these sorts of issues cited above and how Robert Moses built an empire in NY...one that ultimately was his undoing.

NDQ

[notdancingqueen]

Originally Posted by GregW

[color=black][font=Verdana]The "rich" have made their money by either "picking the pockets of the working class and poor" or inheriting the wealth from people that did.

I take your point that this is often the case -- but it's not always the case as your sweeping generalization implies. One of my best friends grew up as blue-collar as they come. She worked her ass off, was smart, and got through college on her own. She started working for a tiny start-up company in 1991 called AOL. Guess what? She made *millions* just because she was in the right place at the right time. No teet-sucking, no inherited wealth. She still works her ass off and shops at Target like the rest of us.

I object to being forced to play a game where I am starting behind and nearly guaranteed to stay behind.

This is where I think government, when done correctly, can and should provide a service. It can level the playing field in order to provide the same *opportunity* for all sorts of folks to achieve and succeed. One example -- if a college degree is basically your ticket up and out, yet college remains within reach of only a small percentage of the population, then government can help make college more affordable so that people can run with it and achieve on their own. I'm not saying the USG should send everyone to Harvard...but providing access to low-interest loans for higher education is one way to give people a break without giving them a handout. A hand up, not a handout, if you will. I was raised on the teach a man to fish brand of Republicanism...unfortunately I don't see much of that going on these days. It's all or nothing.

The Dept of Defense could care less about “protecting the people”. They are only interested in protecting their contractors and self aggrandizement of the politicians collecting the “campaign contributions”.

Define DOD! It's made up of many, many GOOD men and women who care a whole hell of a lot about protecting and service. Without going all Trace Atkins on you, I'll just say that one of my very best friends is a DOD civilian and also a Major in the Army Reserves. He is likely headed to the Middle East later this winter on a THIRD tour of duty since 9/11 -- and I assure you it's not to make contractors rich. He is just as frustrated as everyone else. Sorry - emotional subject for me. I grow more grey hairs every time he leaves...

[WannaComeHome]

Define DOD! It's made up of many, many GOOD men and women who care a whole hell of a lot about protecting and service.

Thank you, Jackie!! I find most people -especially those from not around 'here' (by which I mean MY here, not NH) don't really understand how vast DoD is, and that it comprises a lot more than just military, and there's a lot more than contractors. There are a lot of people who very much believe in their mission, whatever division of DoD they are in, and they were very hard for the people of the US.

The "rich" have made their money by either "picking the pockets of the working class and poor" or inheriting the wealth from people that did.

Greg, you cannot imagine how tired I am of soooo many people whining about 'the rich'. define 'rich'?! Is it anyone who makes more than $100k? some people seem to think that's rich, but believe me it's not. when does an income become 'rich' and for that matter what is your definition of 'poor'? why does there seem to be nothing in between?!! Why do you think some people who make a lot of money don't work hard for it? I know a few that I consider rich (certainly well off anyway), and they do work hard.

workforce housing is a step in the proper direction.

I'd have to say it all depends on how it's being used. IF it were being built for the people who work on the 'inrastructure' of the town - cops, fire dept, teachers.... who aren't being paid enough to buy a house, I might be convinced - although I personally think some sort of rebate/credit/incentive that lowered their taxes would be better, for as long as they were in those jobs. But that's not what this bill is about at all. there is nothing in the bill that even mentions occupation or anything related to the town's needs/welfare - simply income level. That's all. So no, I don't believe it's in the proper direction.

Someone had asked why we keep calling it low-income housing (I can't find the original post). The bill tries to hide it's meaning a lot, but reading through:
"Affordable” means housing with combined rental and utility costs or combined mortgage loan debt services, property taxes, and required insurance that do not exceed 30 percent of a household’s gross annual income. " these days, that pretty much defines 'low income'. mind you, it USED to be what was considered the norm until so many people started over spending and becoming house-poor.

Mostly it's from the paragraph at the very end where it planning & zoning declaration of purpose "All citizens of the state benefit from a balanced supply of housing which is affordable to persons and families of low and moderate income."

And that it doesn't cover senior/elderly housing can be found at the top where it says "Housing developments that exclude minor children from more than 20 percent of the units, or in which more than 50 percent of the dwelling units have fewer than two bedrooms, shall not constitute workforce housing for the purposes of this subdivision." so a development for seniors is not allowed under this.

So, it all goes back to what Nhyrnut was saying: nothing to do with the welfare of anybody but some whiny developer (since the ENTIRE purpose of this bill is 'The purpose of this act is to clarify the requirements of Britton v. Chester (134 N.H. 439 (1991)") who couldn't do what he wanted where he wanted the way he wanted, but by gum he was friends with the governor! so now there's a state bill.

[sgthoskins]

Greg has no idea how the DoD works.

[CometVoyager]

Originally Posted by lisa g

Wanna, I care very much about that part. And I do not feel that same = fair or earned privilege = right. This is not an easy thing for me to wait out at all.

The more I study this workforce housing requirement the more it reminds me of the unfair and prejudice program called Affirmative Action which is really a Racial Quota!! It has nothing to to with the truth or the merits of an individual but only the color of his skin!

In the case of Workforce Housing you will soon see an Exponential Rise in Crime like Murders and Rapes etc. I said it before in a thread someone once posted, asking what areas of New Hampshire are Blue and I said just look for the areas with higher crime with Thugs on the streets! God save New Hampshire and America!!!!!!

[GregW]

CV - so you are certain that all the thugs and theives are poor people and it is proper to exclude these people from suburbia so it will be safe. How naieve. Have you not realized that poor people have cars and can drive to their thievery. It happens every summer in my town.

Workforce housing is not designed for the indigent but for people with less than executive pay scales. You know the folks that repair your cars, fix your plumbing, put on your roofing and run and repair the machinery in the factory. Why should these people be forced to live in Manchester instead of closer to their work in Londonderry.

[nicolem]

Originally Posted by GregW

CV - so you are certain that all the thugs and theives are poor people and it is proper to exclude these people from suburbia so it will be safe. How naieve. Have you not realized that poor people have cars and can drive to their thievery. It happens every summer in my town.

Workforce housing is not designed for the indigent but for people with less than executive pay scales. You know the folks that repair your cars, fix your plumbing, put on your roofing and run and repair the machinery in the factory. Why should these people be forced to live in Manchester instead of closer to their work in Londonderry.

Forced? Are you kidding me? No one is being forced to live in Manchester or anywhere else in this country. If they want to move somewhere else-perhaps they should work two or three jobs-like MANY have-in order to save up and to be able to afford to live in the town of their choosing. Perhaps they should work hard and take control of their lives, sacrifice and not play the victim.

[notdancingqueen]

Originally Posted by CometVoyager

I said it before in a thread someone once posted, asking what areas of New Hampshire are Blue and I said just look for the areas with higher crime with Thugs on the streets

yeah, all that crime in New London is killing me!

(Sorry Comet - couldn't resist. :-) )