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It is similar to the sales tax situation. To avoid high property taxes, one can downsize to a property with lower property taxes or pay rent. Property taxes are an expense of owning a home, like utilities, insurance, etc. Many towns have discounted property tax for senior citizens. If the seniors own the home, they can get a reverse mortgage to help with their propery taxes and other expenses.
As for car insurance, I moved to NH from MA in 1995. The insurance for our two cars went from $2500/year to $1200/year. I was talking to my brother in law last year about car insurance and he pays over $5,000 per year for his three cars and I pay $2200. We have similar cars in value and teenage drivers (he has one, I have two).
As for home insurance, I don't believe there is much difference.
Thanks for your insights.
I've found, in looking to downsize (my house here is already pretty small, under 1200 sf) that small ranches or bungalows in some states still have way out of proportion taxes. If you look at small houses in nice towns in NH and here, you still see high taxes. Taxes should be geared to size of property and income perhaps. If I were in a high income category i would have no problem paying high taxes. But to force lower income people, who also deserve to own a home and contribute to their community in positives ways, into high taxes does not seem fair. Here all the well heeled homeowners are crying for an override, meanwhile many state employees garner sometimes outrageous wages and benefits that can never be cut under any circumstances (my sister is one of them). Perhaps tax increases, after a certain "bottom line payment" for all, could be voluntary, then everyone will get what they want and need....just some thoughts. (There's always the other side of an issue....)
But to force lower income people, who also deserve to own a home and contribute to their community in positives ways, into high taxes does not seem fair.
That says a lot right there. You don't deserve anything. Life is not easy or fair. I think MA is more your style. You want to own a bigger home or not get hurt with taxes make more money. It's pretty simple. America wasn't founded so the high income support the low income. Sadly it has become that.
It never ceases to amaze me that people think they deserve something. Earn it... I am pretty certain youre a lefty too.
That says a lot right there. You don't deserve anything. Life is not easy or fair. I think MA is more your style. You want to own a bigger home or not get hurt with taxes make more money. It's pretty simple. America wasn't founded so the high income support the low income. Sadly it has become that.
It never ceases to amaze me that people think they deserve something. Earn it... I am pretty certain youre a lefty too.
I think you misunderstood....EVERYONE who works at a job, esp those who work hard for a living, deserves to own a home, not just those well-off. At least, they "deserve" it as much as anyone does/ People deserve a piece of security when they work for it. I'm NOT for handouts, ever.
I think that the topic was balancing out the tax issue between states. Seeking info, not argument.
Last edited by RiverBird; 06-07-2009 at 01:52 PM..
I think you misunderstood....EVERYONE who works at a job, esp those who work hard for a living, deserves to own a home, not just those well-off. At least, they "deserve" it as much as anyone does/ People deserve a piece of security when they work for it. I'm NOT for handouts, ever.
May I? I think what you mean is that they deserve the right to own a home (within their means - MO).
While 'deserve' is a verb, it's kinda needs a qualifier or many people these days take the word to mean 'are owed'. I personally agree that such people (ok, anyone) deserves the right to own a house. As long as it's a house they can afford. No one 'deserves' a house more than they can afford, just because they want it (wouldn't that be nice!). Which points to people deserve the right to live where they can afford, not just anywhere they want just because they want it. Just because you like a particular town (or even grew up there) doesn't automatically mean you 'deserve' to buy a house there if you can't afford the mortgage and/or the taxes.
May I? I think what you mean is that they deserve the right to own a home (within their means - MO).
While 'deserve' is a verb, it's kinda needs a qualifier or many people these days take the word to mean 'are owed'. I personally agree that such people (ok, anyone) deserves the right to own a house. As long as it's a house they can afford. No one 'deserves' a house more than they can afford, just because they want it (wouldn't that be nice!). Which points to people deserve the right to live where they can afford, not just anywhere they want just because they want it. Just because you like a particular town (or even grew up there) doesn't automatically mean you 'deserve' to buy a house there if you can't afford the mortgage and/or the taxes.
May I? I think what you mean is that they deserve the right to own a home (within their means - MO).
While 'deserve' is a verb, it's kinda needs a qualifier or many people these days take the word to mean 'are owed'. I personally agree that such people (ok, anyone) deserves the right to own a house. As long as it's a house they can afford. No one 'deserves' a house more than they can afford, just because they want it (wouldn't that be nice!). Which points to people deserve the right to live where they can afford, not just anywhere they want just because they want it. Just because you like a particular town (or even grew up there) doesn't automatically mean you 'deserve' to buy a house there if you can't afford the mortgage and/or the taxes.
"Such people" -- implies the less affluent?
These days, fewer and fewer people can "afford" their own home, yet they work every bit as hard and sometimes harder than those who have had the funds to purchase theirs. And, fewer and fewer places are affordable, with gentrification going on everywhere. Even some older people who have worked hard and paid off their mortgages can no longer afford the property tax, etc. where they live and must leave. Deserve is not a right. It means "to be worthy for some reward" (Websters)....It means if I do "A" really well and diligently and save for "B," I deserve "B" (of course, within my means). Deserve is an outcome of effort.
I think that unfortunately, not everyone who has lost their home is undeserving of that home. I don't know anyone who has, but with the ARM mortgages you could have seen it coming. Of course it could be argued that people who took ARM mortgages were dumb, but many, with the insane costs of rents by (some) gouging landlords young families felt they had no alternative. Not everyone reached for a McMansion beyond their means....
"Such people" -- implies the less affluent?
These days, fewer and fewer people can "afford" their own home, yet they work every bit as hard and sometimes harder than those who have had the funds to purchase theirs. And, fewer and fewer places are affordable, with gentrification going on everywhere. Even some older people who have worked hard and paid off their mortgages can no longer afford the property tax, etc. where they live and must leave. Deserve is not a right. It means "to be worthy for some reward" (Websters)....It means if I do "A" really well and diligently and save for "B," I deserve "B" (of course, within my means). Deserve is an outcome of effort.
I think that unfortunately, not everyone who has lost their home is undeserving of that home. I don't know anyone who has, but with the ARM mortgages you could have seen it coming. Of course it could be argued that people who took ARM mortgages were dumb, but many, with the insane costs of rents by (some) gouging landlords young families felt they had no alternative. Not everyone reached for a McMansion beyond their means....
Whether or not anyone "deserves" anything is irrelevant. That is simply an emotional judgement that you are making. It is truly irrelevant. If people can afford to buy or own a home then they should do so if they wish. If they cannot then they should simply not own one.
"Such people" -- implies the less affluent?
These days, fewer and fewer people can "afford" their own home, yet they work every bit as hard and sometimes harder than those who have had the funds to purchase theirs. And, fewer and fewer places are affordable, with gentrification going on everywhere. Even some older people who have worked hard and paid off their mortgages can no longer afford the property tax, etc. where they live and must leave. Deserve is not a right. It means "to be worthy for some reward" (Websters)....It means if I do "A" really well and diligently and save for "B," I deserve "B" (of course, within my means). Deserve is an outcome of effort.
I think that unfortunately, not everyone who has lost their home is undeserving of that home. I don't know anyone who has, but with the ARM mortgages you could have seen it coming. Of course it could be argued that people who took ARM mortgages were dumb, but many, with the insane costs of rents by (some) gouging landlords young families felt they had no alternative. Not everyone reached for a McMansion beyond their means....
The last statement is confusing. No alternative? It is rare for someone to buy a home and pay less (mortgage, property taxes, insurance) than they were paying in rent, unless they were renting a mansion and then downsided by buying something small. If you can't afford to rent a place then you certainly cannot afford to buy it...
There were many people who bought houses they could not afford or they could afford them but decided to use the house as an ATM to get cash. Once the real estate market crashed, they lost out. Their own greed did them in. The days of "no money down", "no income verification", etc. are over.
As for older people who have paid off their mortgage but cannot pay their property taxes, they have to tap the equity in their homes if they do not want to move. Property taxes are a zero sum game. If those people do not pay their property taxes, everyone else in their town will have to pay a little more to make up for it. The government is not going to cut its budget.
Pretty much what my dad has told me since I was knee-high to a grasshopper. The world owes you NOTHING except what you make from it.
Or, as he also told me, "When you're dumb, you better toughen up, and you're no rocket scientist..." (Yes kids, that was as a joke.)
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