Global climate change-Food for thought

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by skytrekker

Dwatted

no offense- but you are in Idaho- a very conservative state. Ok politics aside- what are you doing in the New Hampshire forum?


Climate change and global warming are continuing to evolve that is true-but at this stage of the game-it seems the scientists are winning out over the oil companies in the search for truth. There is no absolute on any subject regarding science- but we now know that the facts speak for themselves thus far- humans are causing the planet to warm- not as stated by Gore, but by a plethora of highly respected and esteemed climate scientists.

Why bring up Gore and Mr. Donaldson?- they are NOT important regarding this issue.

If I need a reason...I was born there. I have lived in many states and find quite a few of their forums interesting.
I could live in Mass. and I would still have the same opinions. I am not so shallow that I automatically reflect the views of the geographic region I live in. BTW, everyone in ID does not necessarily think as I do.
There are just as many respected scientists who say the opposite, that there is little to no proof that humans are causing the planet to warm.
I bring up algore because he has made this debate a religious argument. There are True Believers and there are the Infidels.
I bring up Donaldson because he is one of many famous people to use the same dishonest argument. They are important because they have the big stage and they are famous.
If you think Gore is not important to this debate...no comment. It is the platform he is using to increase his fame and power.

[WannaComeHome]

Originally Posted by skytrekker

read the real science- which is at this point indisputably shows the planet warming at an alarming rate, with validated scientific evidence that it is caused by humans. Any other outcome is sheer folly and is in fact 'political junk' with those with an agenda in certain industries.

but I seem to recall hearing the same about the 'hole' in the ozone layer which seems to be a non issue now. Funny, turned out it really wasn't caused by humans, it was a natural phenomenon.

Yes, we have been warming lately, we've only been charting things for less than 200 years and that's nothing in the geologic/atmospheric timeframe. We just don't know. Now that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to be cleaner anyway.

However... why do you really think that what we do in this country is going to make that much difference when other countries, such as China, are polluting far far worse than we are and don't care? What will end up happening is that we introduce all sorts of measurements for scrubbing and cleaning, which will drive some out some businesses or raise prices so high that no one can afford their product.. and in order to avoid that pitfall companies will outsource to where labor is cheaper... and they don't do any pollution control. hello?!

Like I said, I don't mean this to be an excuse for wholesale pollution dumping, I believe we should try to be clean. However, it ain't all on our plate, nor western Europe's.

[WIMU]

I absolutely am for cleaner and better mileage vehicles if not electric or hydrogen or battery whatever vehicles--should have been done 35 years ago when everybody was screaming about global cooling. I am all for wind power and solar. Solar should be mandatory in the southwest part of the country where sun is present 85% of the time. I still believe and will that we are in a climate shift just like the 70's and we will have another cooling period 3o years later again. 5-10 years is nothing in meteorological terms yet everybody like the lemmings we are follow the hypocrites off the cliff. Politicians have the power to mandate better controls and develop better sources of energy if they want to but they don't so they will continuye to cry wolf first.

[skytrekker]

Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit

If I need a reason...I was born there. I have lived in many states and find quite a few of their forums interesting.
I could live in Mass. and I would still have the same opinions. I am not so shallow that I automatically reflect the views of the geographic region I live in. BTW, everyone in ID does not necessarily think as I do.
There are just as many respected scientists who say the opposite, that there is little to no proof that humans are causing the planet to warm.
I bring up algore because he has made this debate a religious argument. There are True Believers and there are the Infidels.
I bring up Donaldson because he is one of many famous people to use the same dishonest argument. They are important because they have the big stage and they are famous.
If you think Gore is not important to this debate...no comment. It is the platform he is using to increase his fame and power.

You are in fact using Gore as a platform- in 'a message' I am not.

I suggest you look at the science- which in fact rises above Gore- and also your political leanings- which are highly subjective.

Again the science is above Gore- that is simply his message- and that message is no different then yours-which is also highly biased.

Al Gore is not important on this issue- nor really is ANY politico. It is merely Gore's 'platform' and does little to change the

information amassed by a myriad of highly ethical scientists globally who have been researching this issue for years.

As for 'respected scientists' who agree with your 'opinion'.... well they seem to be outnumbered 9 to 1- the scientific laws of probability

seem to put them in a very small minority- and considering the empirical evidence gathered thus far- they as you are the ones with a

'political agenda'.

Also I might say the state of New Hampshire is a very different state then when you lived here

[Dwatted Wabbit]

I don't know where you get your figures, but it is nowhere near a 9:1 ratio regarding the gloabloney True Believers vs. Infidel scientists. More like 50:50. In fact the tide of true believers seems to be ebbing a bit.
To state my opinion is highly political, while yours isn't, is absurd and myopic.
You don't know when I last lived in NH. And you mention "lived here." You live in Connecticut. You're making assumptions in an area you know nothing about. And that is immaterial to this discussion.
Fact is, global warming is far more political science than it is earth science.
Believe what you like, I know I won't change any of your perceptions regarding this issue. I do know a con job when I see it.
Do-gooders with a control agenda always glaze it over with "this is for your own good."
Our "own good" always means less freedom, more regulation, more government, more taxes. Always.

[skytrekker]

Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit

I don't know where you get your figures, but it is nowhere near a 9:1 ratio regarding the gloabloney True Believers vs. Infidel scientists. More like 50:50. In fact the tide of true believers seems to be ebbing a bit.
To state my opinion is highly political, while yours isn't, is absurd and myopic.
You don't know when I last lived in NH. And you mention "lived here." You live in Connecticut. You're making assumptions in an area you know nothing about. And that is immaterial to this discussion.
Fact is, global warming is far more political science than it is earth science.
Believe what you like, I know I won't change any of your perceptions regarding this issue. I do know a con job when I see it.
Do-gooders with a control agenda always glaze it over with "this is for your own good."
Our "own good" always means less freedom, more regulation, more government, more taxes. Always.

Do-gooders with a control agenda always glaze it over with "this is for your own good."
Our "own good" always means less freedom, more regulation, more government, more taxes.


I think the above statement by you sums it up- your agenda is purely political
That answers my question totally. Thanks for really clarifying what I knew all along.

[WannaComeHome]

Are we done with this now???

Honestly, it's like talking about religion. The sides are polarized and no amount of talking/sniping is going to change anyone's side. both sides can be charged wtih politcal issues, both sides can have good & bad points.

Skytrekker, you're a moderator. This topic has really left anything to do with NH, can't you just let it go and lock this dang thing?

[skytrekker]

Originally Posted by WannaComeHome

Are we done with this now???

Honestly, it's like talking about religion. The sides are polarized and no amount of talking/sniping is going to change anyone's side. both sides can be charged wtih politcal issues, both sides can have good & bad points.

Skytrekker, you're a moderator. This topic has really left anything to do with NH, can't you just let it go and lock this dang thing?

As a New Englander

climate change is very important to me

I understand your feelings-please understand mine. Out of staters nearly 2600 miles away are able to express their opinions here- I am local

let me express how I feel. Anything less is unfair. Also....There is a distinct difference between 'science' and 'religion' ...if one thinks otherwise

it is foolish

[WannaComeHome]

Originally Posted by skytrekker

I understand your feelings-please understand mine. Out of staters nearly 2600 miles away are able to express their opinions here- I am local
let me express how I feel. Anything less is unfair. Also....There is a distinct difference between 'science' and 'religion' ...if one thinks otherwise it is foolish

You misunderstand what I'm saying. Of course you have a right to express how you feel. My point is that you HAVE expressed it. a couple of times. So have others. a couple of times. I think it's been well and duly expressed already. No one is going to change their minds on such a polarizing (no pun in tended, well... maybe) subject!

And I never said that there was no difference between science and religion. I said it was LIKE discussing religion: most people have their opinions and all the discussion in the world isn't particularly going to change the minds of people who have strong convictions. just like this subject.