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Old 08-03-2010, 04:04 PM
 
Location: 38 38' 45" N, -90 20' 08" W
7,646 posts, read 11,520,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jknic View Post
You know, it's really surprising how ignorant people in this state are of the other half. Although I will say, North Jersey seems to know less about South Jersey than the other way around.
I have further input. Most people in both ends of the state don't have any idea how SIMILAR they are, relative to the rest of the country. Both ends are suburbs to two of the five largest cities in the country.

I was driving a little earlier today through a town called Alamogordo New Mexico, to bring my children to a "space" camp. As I was driving out of the town, I began to think about how I viewed this place almost 6 years ago, when I was initially exposed to it. As a life long northeasterner, I couldn't wrap myself around how impoverished and on the margins so many people live in this country, on a widespread basis, outside of New Jersey. If you were to bring 20 suburban New Jersey families into a town like this, on either end of the state, 19 of them would tear ass out of there within the first 5 minutes. I am much more used to it now, but the fact remains that when you live in a state like NJ, you have many, many more luxuries, relative to shopping, infrastructure and other forms of service that you just don't have the pleasure of taking for granted in so many other areas of other states. New Jersey is unique in the aspect that it is suburbanized for really the entire extent of the state, save for the Pinelands. They are really very, very similar in that regard. The design might be slightly, intangibly different, but you could easily distinguish either end of the state, blindfolded, than say, if you were unbounded in rural Kansas, or Arizona. And I am not talking about differences in terrain either, but rather, in terms of neighborhood layout.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:41 PM
 
Location: NJ
11,698 posts, read 21,506,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jknic View Post
You know, it's really surprising how ignorant people in this state are of the other half. Although I will say, North Jersey seems to know less about South Jersey than the other way around.
this may be true, but I can say with near certainty those who stated reasons for liking South Jersey over North Jersey have never been to my neck of North Jersey - my area is less crowded than anywhere in the Delaware Valley, we *gasp* talk to each other!, people are polite, it *DOES* have a New England feel (at least weather wise!), and insert any other trait that people seem to associate with only South Jersey.

oh, and btw - I've lived in Burlington County and prefer it up here.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:41 PM
 
1,608 posts, read 2,232,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
this may be true, but I can say with near certainty those who stated reasons for liking South Jersey over North Jersey have never been to my neck of North Jersey - my area is less crowded than anywhere in the Delaware Valley, we *gasp* talk to each other!, people are polite, it *DOES* have a New England feel (at least weather wise!), and insert any other trait that people seem to associate with only South Jersey.

oh, and btw - I've lived in Burlington County and prefer it up here.
I've probably been to you're neck of North Jersey (I've been to all 21 counties!) I still prefer South Jersey though, mainly because I hate driving over hills and I prefer to be closer to the ocean. Also, we have Wawa. I certainly do agree with the New England fell. I can think of parts of Warren and Susex Counties that if I didn't know any better were used for Norman Rockwell paintings. Also, they STILL, although not my much granted, have better mass transit than South Jersey. They also still get more attention from the state government than us.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Each is a nice place to live, and in the end it comes down to personal preference. Fast Paced or Laid Back, Rural or Urban, Ocean or Mountains, etc.
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Old 08-04-2010, 02:26 AM
 
Location: all over NJ-currently in Totowa
316 posts, read 521,579 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
Of course you can do without WaWas because they're nice.

ROFLMAO, you think that the Daily News is the measure of something, or is the Inquirer over your head? If that's all that you know about Philly, do yourself a favor & keep it to yourself.

Translation: I can be rude without getting called on it. Believe me, people in South Jersey are not interested in living on the edge. Really. We're good to go without it.

Really, if you go & are nice to them, they'll be nice to you. Honestly, no one likes tourists who think that they're superior & think it's OK to be rude. It's their town. As a tourist, you are their guest, but if you don't act like a guest, don't expect to be treated as one.
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Whoa- take it easy, I was just having some fun, not looking for a civil war- - I love this entire state-
Its just that I grew up in the northern 1/2 and spent 95% of my time north- we spent 2 weeks in Belmar every summer until I was maybe 15- -You want to call me ignorant on my knowledge of living in South Jersey - fair enuff- -I dont care, This is just fun internet banter * * *

Sorry that you felt the need to attack my -reading material,knowledge of Philly, assume that Im a rude tourist, and dont like that I prefer living a "bit more on the edge"- -and by the way WAWA,s are fine for goodness sake, they are just a convienence store, Im sorry you so got so defensive, they do have good coffee

--cant we all get along---------
good karma>>> comin your way>>>tc
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Old 08-04-2010, 08:33 AM
 
Location: NJ
11,698 posts, read 21,506,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jknic View Post
I've probably been to you're neck of North Jersey (I've been to all 21 counties!) I still prefer South Jersey though, mainly because I hate driving over hills and I prefer to be closer to the ocean. Also, we have Wawa. I certainly do agree with the New England fell. I can think of parts of Warren and Susex Counties that if I didn't know any better were used for Norman Rockwell paintings. Also, they STILL, although not my much granted, have better mass transit than South Jersey. They also still get more attention from the state government than us.

Anyway, like I said earlier. Each is a nice place to live, and in the end it comes down to personal preference. Fast Paced or Laid Back, Rural or Urban, Ocean or Mountains, etc.
You can't cling to that Wawa advantage for long!

Wawa's Parsippany store will be its northern-most location | NJ.com

I'm just foolin' with you.

Although this thread begs for some proof. It's been mentioned several times that South Jersey get the short end of the stick when it comes to aid, etc - that North Jersey is a welfare receipient, if you will. Does anyone have any proof about taxes paid -vs- aid by county? I can't find anything and it's been talked about so much as common knowledge, there must be something out there that verifies it. If I were to guess, I'd say my neck of North Jersey gets far less "attention" than the Delaware Valley, but I have nothing to back up that claim.
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:17 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
13,171 posts, read 13,197,090 times
Reputation: 4404
Quote:
Originally Posted by tceffo View Post
-----------------------------------------------------
Whoa- take it easy, I was just having some fun, not looking for a civil war- - I love this entire state-
Its just that I grew up in the northern 1/2 and spent 95% of my time north- we spent 2 weeks in Belmar every summer until I was maybe 15- -You want to call me ignorant on my knowledge of living in South Jersey - fair enuff- -I dont care, This is just fun internet banter * * *

Sorry that you felt the need to attack my -reading material,knowledge of Philly, assume that Im a rude tourist, and dont like that I prefer living a "bit more on the edge"- -and by the way WAWA,s are fine for goodness sake, they are just a convienence store, Im sorry you so got so defensive, they do have good coffee

--cant we all get along---------
good karma>>> comin your way>>>tc
It may have been fun to you, but I have heard this exact litany & a few more gems, repeatedly from people who moved into the Cherry Hill area, after the Riverline was opened for the sole purpose of getting what they considered to be cheap real estate. They didn't just hate South Jersey, they loathed it, yet they moved there & felt a need to point out all of what they decided was wrong with the area.

These would be the same geniuses who would put in a first bid on a house OVER the list price. They drove up housing prices & therefore property taxes at a time when our jobs were fleeing the state. I saw $20 an hour jobs drop to $8 or 9 an hour. I got forced out, as did a lot of others.

If you don't know South Jersey, by the nature of the thread, tell us why North Jersey is better.
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:45 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
13,171 posts, read 13,197,090 times
Reputation: 4404
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
You can't cling to that Wawa advantage for long!

Wawa's Parsippany store will be its northern-most location | NJ.com

I'm just foolin' with you.

Although this thread begs for some proof. It's been mentioned several times that South Jersey get the short end of the stick when it comes to aid, etc - that North Jersey is a welfare receipient, if you will. Does anyone have any proof about taxes paid -vs- aid by county? I can't find anything and it's been talked about so much as common knowledge, there must be something out there that verifies it. If I were to guess, I'd say my neck of North Jersey gets far less "attention" than the Delaware Valley, but I have nothing to back up that claim.
Interesting about WaWa, tahiti. It makes sense. (In the mean time, MidAtlantic transplants in NC are begging them to come down I 85. Right now they stop in Petersburg, VA)

I can remember The Philadelphia Inquirer publishing figures on the money distribution in North Jersey vs South Jersey many years ago. When they pulled the secession question off our ballots, the powers in Trenton admitted the disparity & promised to do better & said that they'd fix the 42/295 mess, so since then, people just watch what's going to North Jersey & make mental notes of what is not going to South Jersey. (& seethe over the 42/295 mess) Whether anything else has been published in recent years, I don't know.
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Old 08-04-2010, 10:57 AM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 21 days ago)
 
13,674 posts, read 17,556,357 times
Reputation: 11861
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
You can't cling to that Wawa advantage for long!

Wawa's Parsippany store will be its northern-most location | NJ.com

I'm just foolin' with you.

Although this thread begs for some proof. It's been mentioned several times that South Jersey get the short end of the stick when it comes to aid, etc - that North Jersey is a welfare receipient, if you will. Does anyone have any proof about taxes paid -vs- aid by county? I can't find anything and it's been talked about so much as common knowledge, there must be something out there that verifies it. If I were to guess, I'd say my neck of North Jersey gets far less "attention" than the Delaware Valley, but I have nothing to back up that claim.
I tried to find "proof" as well, but it's not easy to find something concrete. Regular state aid for things like municipalities, schools, roads, etc., things that are funded annually, are based on formulas that equitably distribute the aid based on statistics. The only times these become "unfair" are when an area experiences drastic growth in a short time frame and the formulas aren't rebalanced.

I think the major crux of the "unfair" statement tends to run towards things like development projects and transit. Since 75% of the state population is "north" the legislature obviously prefers sending money to their own districts as much as possible and I wouldn't expect anything less.

So, yes South Jersey does get it's fair share of regular state aid. However, we miss out on a lot of state funding for major development projects. I can't provide a quote for this, but I read a newspaper article a few years ago that stated that South Jersey receives less than 10% of state development dollars. They went on to list projects that could have been funded if the distribution was more equal.
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Old 08-04-2010, 12:07 PM
 
Location: NJ
11,698 posts, read 21,506,728 times
Reputation: 4487
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
I tried to find "proof" as well, but it's not easy to find something concrete. Regular state aid for things like municipalities, schools, roads, etc., things that are funded annually, are based on formulas that equitably distribute the aid based on statistics. The only times these become "unfair" are when an area experiences drastic growth in a short time frame and the formulas aren't rebalanced.

I think the major crux of the "unfair" statement tends to run towards things like development projects and transit. Since 75% of the state population is "north" the legislature obviously prefers sending money to their own districts as much as possible and I wouldn't expect anything less.

So, yes South Jersey does get it's fair share of regular state aid. However, we miss out on a lot of state funding for major development projects. I can't provide a quote for this, but I read a newspaper article a few years ago that stated that South Jersey receives less than 10% of state development dollars. They went on to list projects that could have been funded if the distribution was more equal.
you want Xanadu? You can have it!

LOL - seriously though, I'm kind of drawing a blank when it comes to lack of funding for state development dollars - what specifically are you referring to? SJ "got" the battleship (over Bayonne) so wasn't there some major development for that and the aquarium? I see 295 is being worked on, the Parkway between Toms River and LBI is being widened. As far as NNJ, 24 and 287 sat for 30+ years before being completed, much like 295 in Bordentown.

Also, is the assertion here that the distribution should be 50/50? It seems "fair" that you would get back what you paid. Again, I'm pulling sh** out of thin air, but I'd venture a guess that NNJ (however you want to draw the boundaries) contribute 65% to the coffers while SJ contributes 35%. Maybe 60/40, obviously due to lower population and generally lower COL including salaries. Do you think the aid distribution is really that skewed - that SJ "gets" back 20% for instance? I don't know, I can't say for sure and it seems no one else can yet the discussion here makes it seem like it's common knowledge, like I said before.

If you could find that article you reference, that would be great. I am actually interested in this.

If it makes you all feel better, I highly doubt those of us in NW Jersey are stealing any of your aid, LOL.
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Old 08-04-2010, 01:10 PM
Status: "The Union forever! Down with the traitors." (set 21 days ago)
 
13,674 posts, read 17,556,357 times
Reputation: 11861
I don't think NW Jersey is stealing any aid, lol. I had a good friend from college that lived in White Meadow Lake in Rockaway and his family moved to Sussex County about 4 years ago to some town near the Delaware Water Gap. I think most people would be shocked to see exactly how rural certain section of North Jersey can be. I'm pretty sure that Camden, Burlington and Gloucester Counties all see more in the way of state money than Sussex does.

I will try to find the article. It was in the Inquirer several years ago, so it will take some digging if it's even available. The only other anecdotal evidence out there is the normal political rhetoric. The "Norcross Machine" was very happy to point out the inequities throughout the early 2000's and worked very hard to get state dollars moving to South Jersey projects (albeit ones they had connections to, lol).

As for the split I believe it is about 75/25 in terms of population and GDP. The message often heard is that we put in 25% but get back less than that. We're apparently the "Rodney Dangerfield's" of the state.
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