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New Jersey Suburbs of Philadelphia Burlington County, Camden County, Gloucester County, Salem County in South Jersey
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:13 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southbound_295 View Post
I worked for Super G for a while. Everyone in the store knew that it was the upscale division. Giant's prices were comparable with Pathmark. Super G's prices were higher.
Having high prices != upscale division. It was the same division, same products, same store layout, same club card accepted from SuperG store in Cherry Hill as Giant in Bethesda, MD.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:25 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avg12 View Post
Having high prices != upscale division. It was the same division, same products, same store layout, same club card accepted from SuperG store in Cherry Hill as Giant in Bethesda, MD.
I worked at Super G.

I shopped at Pathmark. I went into Giant when I visited a friend in Owings Mills. I stand by what I said. The layout was similar, but not the same. Prices at Super G were higher. There were more amenities at Super G.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:50 AM
 
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Perhaps you are both right, and it is just probably a matter of marketing perception. It seems that their price points and strategy shifted over time. Here is an excerpt from a 1997 archive. SUPER G MAKES SHIFT TO MICROMARKETING, EDLP | Archive content from Supermarket News

"Until late May, the Giants and Super Gs had been virtually identical, except for the name. However, a Giant spokesman told SN last week that Giant has replaced its traditional high-low pricing format at the nine Super Gs with an everyday-low-pricing approach "due to competition."
.........

The newsletter said Giant will merchandise the Super Gs based on the needs of customers in the Northern division, rather than trying to convince them to accept the programs Giant runs in stores closer to its home base."


On the flip side to EDLP, that same year Super G also launched store upscale-esque extras like wedding and prom services. GIANT SHOWCASING WEDDING, PROM SERVICES | Archive content from Supermarket News
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,809 posts, read 34,440,425 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH101 View Post
Perhaps you are both right, and it is just probably a matter of marketing perception. It seems that their price points shifted over time. Here is an excerpt from a 1997 archive about a price point shift. SUPER G MAKES SHIFT TO MICROMARKETING, EDLP | Archive content from Supermarket News

"Until late May, the Giants and Super Gs had been virtually identical, except for the name. However, a Giant spokesman told SN last week that Giant has replaced its traditional high-low pricing format at the nine Super Gs with an everyday-low-pricing approach "due to competition."
.........

The newsletter said Giant will merchandise the Super Gs based on the needs of customers in the Northern division, rather than trying to convince them to accept the programs Giant runs in stores closer to its home base."


On the flip side to EDLP, that same year Super G launched store upscale-esque extras like wedding and prom services. GIANT SHOWCASING WEDDING, PROM SERVICES | Archive content from Supermarket News
Thank you.

The store manager told all employees that Super G was the upscale division of Giant of Landover. Between that & the fact that I was in & out of Giant, Super G, & Pathmark & knew the price points means that I do know what I'm talking about.
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:10 PM
 
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I honestly think there are people sitting in the boardrooms of these companies that spend less time pondering these questions...

Anyway, did anyone ever stop to wonder why these chains fail in South Jersey and can't pentrate the market? South Jersey in the core counties of Gloucester, Camden and Burlington has a population approaching 1.3 million people. Also, contrary to the popular opinion of people who live in North Jersey, those three counties are actually pretty wealthy. So, we have a lot of people and they aren't exactly poor. Retail is also generally pretty darn succesful for the most part up and down the spectrum.

So, why is it that when it comes to supermarkets it's pretty much just ShopRite and Acme? Just about everything else has failed. Even Walmart and Target, while making big impacts nationally, don't seem to be more than a blip on the radar in South Jersey. The only chain that has seemed to make any progress lately is Bottom Dollar, but they are doing it by filling niches in more depressed areas.

You guy's are all arguing upscale, discount, this store, that store, more variety, etc. but everytime it's tried it fails. Why? Is it the large concentration of warehouse clubs? I think that may have something to do with it personally. South Jersey has a rather large concentration of warehouse clubs relative to many areas.

So, instead of reading about endless arguments over branding and how cool would it be if store x changed to store y and chain z moved into the area, does anyone want to take a stab at why these chains fail/struggle while Acme and ShopRite soldier on?
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:44 PM
 
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Well as it has been mentioned, it is a very fragmented market. According to a 2013 study of the Philadelphia metro area (I know you posed a question about South Jersey specifically, but the study is only for the Philly metro area), it is believed that no other metro area in the US has as many chains and strong independent operators as Philadelphia. Additionally the Philly metro area also has presence from virtually every major club store and drug chain, plus "numerous price operators of all shapes and sizes." This is why it is hard to compete and turn a profit in such a fragmented market for some of these chains, and hence the closings.

BUT what has history shown happens in situations with high fragmentation of the market? Consolidation. And that is essentially what the study predicts as well. Basically it says the biggest opportunities ahead are for the stronger competitors to take over the weaker ones. Hence all this speculation.

Here is an image from SN depicting the current market share in the Philly metro area. As one of the sources I posted below points out though, it is a bit misleading since it lists ShopRite by operator instead of as one brand. As you can see, the warehouse clubs you mentioned do have a decent share: about 11.8% combined. (Costco, BJ's, Sams) It is also interesting that Walmart has overtaken Pathmark in market share with less stores....




Additionally, here is another study by Food Trade News listing JUST supermarkets (no super centers, warehouse stores, convenience stores, drug stores, etc) for the Philly market (Bucks, Montgomery, Chester, Delaware and Philadelphia Counties in PA, and Burlington, Camden and Gloucester Counties in NJ):

1. Giant/Carlisle - 27.88% market share
2. ShopRite/PriceRite - 23.52%
3. Acme Markets - 18.25%
4. A&P (Pathmark, Super Fresh, Food Basics) - 9.31%
5. Wegmans - 5.31%
6. Whole Foods - 3.65%
7. Save-A-Lot - 3.45%
8. Redner's Markets - 3.29%
9. Thriftway/Shop 'n Bag - 2.41%
10. Bottom Dollar Food - 2.27%

Interesting to note, that this same study also has lists Delaware Valley supermarket leaders, and ShopRite is by far the market leader, with almost 8% more market share over Giant.

Sources:
Chains Fight for Share of Fragmented Philly Market | Retail & Financial content from Supermarket News
Running with Equity Retail: Philly's fragmented market weeding out "losers"
ShopRite, Giant dominate Delaware Valley and Philadelphia market share



EDIT: OK re-reading the post I may have gotten a bit off track.

Last edited by CH101; 08-01-2013 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 08-01-2013, 12:57 PM
 
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Does Food Basics exist anywhere anymore? I thought their name had disappeared from the A&P corporate website, but I thought I read not too long ago that they still were in business. The only Food Basics that I have any familiarity with personally was their Cheltenham PA store, which was built in 1996 as a Super Fresh which converted to Food Basics in 2002 (perhaps in anticipation of the two nearby Walmarts becoming Supercenters, but neither ever did), but closed anyway around 2008 when A&P bought Pathmark, who already had a store nearby which was older and smaller, but in a better location, ironically across the parking lot from a Walmart though. This Food Basics is still abandoned last I checked, but I wonder if Save-A-Lot would consider moving to the site. Their current Cheltenham store is very old and dingy (in an old Penn Fruit building), and has a very claustrophobic parking lot. A plus though is that a Wine & Spirits is next door. Maybe both of them can move to the Food Basics site, along with perhaps a new Goodwill store opening there.
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:09 PM
 
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^^ There are still two Food Basics locations in Philadelphia, and a number of locations in North Jersey per their website. Store Locator | Food Basics
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Old 08-01-2013, 03:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH101 View Post
EDIT: OK re-reading the post I may have gotten a bit off track.
Kind of, but it was interesting. I wish the data was there for just South Jersey, because I think you would see what is basically an already rather consolidated market where a couple of large players control everything with some niche locations hanging on. It also seems like WalMart has not proven the "destroyer" that they have in other markets. There is still an Acme in the Audubon shopping center despite the Super Walmart in pretty much the same plaza.

Given the fragmentation though and the very obvious trend of consolidation, why are people arguing that they want to see more variety in South Jersey? It's kind of obvious that the market has spoken and consolidation is the name of the game. IMO, I think Acme and ShopRite have the South Jersey market figured out right. People don't necessarily want a "premium" experience, but they also don't want to feel like they are shopping in the ghetto either. Premium chains with premium pricing won't cut it outside of niches like Whole Foods. Discount places that feel/look like discount places won't make it either outside of very narrow areas where people need those stores. Even then people want more of a Bottom Dollar and less of a skanky rundown store ala the old Pathmark in Lawnside.

I also think that people are exceedingly loyal to stores that have been in the area for a long time. I also know many people that are very loyal to Acme because it is a union operation. Even when there was a new fancy Superfresh in Westmont plaza, people still flocked to the old Acme that hadn't even gotten a new coat of paint in 20 years. Why? Because they were used to the store and they were familiar with the people that worked there. I can walk into that Acme today and I still recognize people that have worked there since I was a kid. I think that fact coupled with Acme's new direction of being more price competitive everyday without the gimmicks will serve them well. Looking at the list and the stores that are succesful in South Jersey, it's the established chains outside of niche stores like Bottom Dollar and Whole Food.

That isn't even getting into the warehouse clubs where there are 4 BJ's, 2 Sam's and 1 Costco. Ironic to me that Costco on the list is the second biggest warehouse club in the area, but they only have one location in South Jersey. I have to feel like they pull a lot more traffic in South Jersey than is apparent in the study. BJ's is actually pretty competitive on grocery items and often just as convenient as actually going to the supermarket. They also offer staple items like milk, bread, deli and eggs at very low prices. Then you have the convenience end with the ubiquitous Wawa's making sure no one runs to the supermarket for milk and bread.

So, I'm still wondering why everyone is talking about "variety" when it's apparent that "variety" is on the way out. Much of this thread (and the retail ones) read like some odd twist on Sim City, not actual discussions about the realities of the market and what people want.
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Old 08-01-2013, 04:02 PM
 
161 posts, read 343,324 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NJGOAT View Post
So, I'm still wondering why everyone is talking about "variety" when it's apparent that "variety" is on the way out. Much of this thread (and the retail ones) read like some odd twist on Sim City, not actual discussions about the realities of the market and what people want.
Well it has to do with the fact that some of the players in the market are not doing too well. The thinking is a new competitor could potentially come in and take advantage of the weak players. I guess part of it is also wishful thinking, since many are not happy with said weak players. I guess we will have to wait and see how the market shakes out after all is said and done.

By the way, I just noticed Aldi does not appear in either of the studies.
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