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I'm a North Jersey native of 50 plus years and wished I never came down here but had to for immediate family reasons.
I'm working on leaving as it's just not the same for many different reasons I don't want to state here.
All I can say is that in New Jersey (imho for me anyway from my experiences in the past 3 years here) the NYC market IS THE NYC market as the Philly Market area of New Jersey in many ways couldn't be more different.
South Jersey is nothing but congested roads, housing developments, and plazas. Id recommend it as an area to raise a family, but decides that's it's a pretty dull. Philly is nothing like New York and the 'singles' scene is dead unless you like milfs or friend some town locals your age who never moved out of their moms house. Good luck!
Those first three problems you list can be summed up in a joke I have heard people tell to settle the age-long debate. "Where does South Jersey begin? Where NJ Transit ends!" (the lone Atlantic City line aside) South Jersey: 21% of the population and 5% of the NJ Transit rail stations.
In all seriousness though, it depends on what you want. Mt. Laurel and Cherry Hill are no different from, say, Parsippany-Troy Hills. Is it ideal for singles? No. Is Philly the pits for singles who want to mingle though? Definitely not (which is again why I recommend a PATCO town). Go to the right neighborhoods, and you will be just fine. Center City/Fishtown/Manayunk/Old City/Northern Liberties/etc. are great. Don't lump the city into one giant conglomerate. People always want to do that because it doesn't require much effort or for you to even know your facts. I mean, would you just tout New York overall as such an awesome place for singles without mentioning that it sucks for singles in the Bronx, Staten Island, Queens outside of a few locales, and still a decent amount of Brooklyn as well?
Also, there is much more to life experiences than just going out to restaurants and bars at night and cafes and shopping in downtown areas during the day. There are select destinations scattered around the area for that, but there is a lot that South Jersey can offer that North Jersey and a lot of Central Jersey doesn't have much of either. Wineries galore, more craft breweries, farms, lots more of nature-related activities in the Pine Barrens (which is far more expansive than the Delaware Water Gap, although that's great, too), etc. If people want to stick themselves in a bubble in Morristown, Hoboken, Westfield, Montclair, etc. that's fine. Those are fun places that I have enjoyed as well (I live in Jersey City by the way). But eventually that scene's going to get repetitive. I am of the opinion that South Jersey can offer more outside of typical consumption culture.
And the beaches crush those in Central Jersey. Way nicer and cleaner sand, warmer water, and way less guidos. Belmar, Point Pleasant, and Asbury Park (as gritty as it is) are all fun, but I'll take The Wildwoods, Sea Isle City, Cape May, LBI, and Margate over them any day.
Originally Posted by DannyHobkins View Post
South Jersey is nothing but congested roads, housing developments, and plazas. Id recommend it as an area to raise a family, but decides that's it's a pretty dull. Philly is nothing like New York and the 'singles' scene is dead unless you like milfs or friend some town locals your age who never moved out of their moms house. Good luck!
Yeah, that's a bit unfair to Philly. Center City, Manayunk, NorLibs/Fishtown, UCity, Fairmount, and parts of South Philly all have a lot of young people with lots of great nightlife, maybe not quite on par with Manhattan, but what is? True, you will encounter a decent number of long-time locals, but overall I can't think of too many places better for young singles.
Quote:
Those first three problems you list can be summed up in a joke I have heard people tell to settle the age-long debate. "Where does South Jersey begin? Where NJ Transit ends!" (the lone Atlantic City line aside) South Jersey: 21% of the population and 5% of the NJ Transit rail stations.
Mass transit relies on density, so it makes sense the denser half of the state has a much higher proportion of the transit. And those in SJ don't make much use of what they have. PATCO trains are 70% empty outside of rush hour, and some towns actively resisted new lines for fear of "undesirables" coming in. DRVPA doesn't help much with its inability to develop PATCO lots, though from what I hear Haddonfield is actually resistant towards any kind of TOD in town. Haddon Township has managed to snarl their own project for ten years.
Quote:
In all seriousness though, it depends on what you want. Mt. Laurel and Cherry Hill are no different from, say, Parsippany-Troy Hills. Is it ideal for singles? No. Is Philly the pits for singles who want to mingle though? Definitely not (which is again why I recommend a PATCO town). Go to the right neighborhoods, and you will be just fine. Center City/Fishtown/Manayunk/Old City/Northern Liberties/etc. are great. Don't lump the city into one giant conglomerate. People always want to do that because it doesn't require much effort or for you to even know your facts. I mean, would you just tout New York overall as such an awesome place for singles without mentioning that it sucks for singles in the Bronx, Staten Island, Queens outside of a few locales, and still a decent amount of Brooklyn as well?
Also, there is much more to life experiences than just going out to restaurants and bars at night and cafes and shopping in downtown areas during the day. There are select destinations scattered around the area for that, but there is a lot that South Jersey can offer that North Jersey and a lot of Central Jersey doesn't have much of either. Wineries galore, more craft breweries, farms, lots more of nature-related activities in the Pine Barrens (which is far more expansive than the Delaware Water Gap, although that's great, too), etc. If people want to stick themselves in a bubble in Morristown, Hoboken, Westfield, Montclair, etc. that's fine. Those are fun places that I have enjoyed as well (I live in Jersey City by the way). But eventually that scene's going to get repetitive. I am of the opinion that South Jersey can offer more outside of typical consumption culture.
SJ does have a good number of wineries, craft breweries, and a surprising coffee scene. I disagree regarding outdoor activities though. A lot of towns in Morris, Somerset, Hunterdon, and Sussex have amazing hiking and parks. Patriot's Path in Morris links nearly the whole county with interconnected trails. Even individual municipalities like Randolph and Mendham have their own rustic trail networks and taking you through hills, forests, and small waterfalls. In SJ, you have drive 40 minutes to the Pine Barrens for that sort of thing. Haddonfield and Cherry Hill have a few decent parks tucked away, but much of the region just seems to be houses, shopping centers and roads. Even Cooper River Park is kinda boring IMO, little shade and not much interesting to look at besides the Philly skyline in the distance.
Those first three problems you list can be summed up in a joke I have heard people tell to settle the age-long debate. "Where does South Jersey begin? Where NJ Transit ends!" (the lone Atlantic City line aside) South Jersey: 21% of the population and 5% of the NJ Transit rail stations.
Don't forget there is the RiverLine which continues where the NEC NJ Transit rail line ends in Trenton.
Don't forget there is the RiverLine which continues where the NEC NJ Transit rail line ends in Trenton.
Of course I didn't forget that. But of course that only came 10 years ago. The point of the joke is, well, just take a look at the NJ Transit map.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJhighlands87
Mass transit relies on density, so it makes sense the denser half of the state has a much higher proportion of the transit. And those in SJ don't make much use of what they have. PATCO trains are 70% empty outside of rush hour, and some towns actively resisted new lines for fear of "undesirables" coming in. DRVPA doesn't help much with its inability to develop PATCO lots, though from what I hear Haddonfield is actually resistant towards any kind of TOD in town. Haddon Township has managed to snarl their own project for ten years.
I agree that North Jersey should have more rail lines, but I think it should still be more proportional in size and not overstated like the way it is. If you look at a map of New Jersey with population density, you will see that most of Camden County and the closer-to-Philly parts of Gloucester and Burlington Counties have densities that match those of much of North Jersey. Overall, it's a smaller geographic area that has this density, which is to be expected since Philly is much smaller than NYC, but I think more of those communities would have been well-served by lines. I mean, if places as far out and less dense as Hackettstown, Gladstone, and High Bridge can have rail stations, places like Mt. Laurel and Washington Twp. definitely could have used them as well.
Also, as far as resistance coming from towns on new lines, I believe it was only Wenonah, which is a super small town anyway, that voted against the Glassboro-Camden Line project. Every other town on the proposed line supports it. But American Dream will be finishes before that ever gets started on anyway, IF it ever gets started on (which I don't think it will). Haddon Township seems to finally be coming around and getting their TOD ready for building. I agree though. Local leadership has been lacking on these fronts very much as well. It's very frustrating on many levels, but I don't think Trenton has cared about helping the region at all for a very long time.
Remember, South Jersey almost tried to secede because they were angry that they weren't getting any NJ Transit projects at all. That's when they finally got a bone thrown at them with the Atlantic City Line. So, I think the impression that overall the area doesn't care about mass transit is a little misguided.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leps12
Of course I didn't forget that. But of course that only came 10 years ago. The point of the joke is, well, just take a look at the NJ Transit map.
I agree that North Jersey should have more rail lines, but I think it should still be more proportional in size and not overstated like the way it is. If you look at a map of New Jersey with population density, you will see that most of Camden County and the closer-to-Philly parts of Gloucester and Burlington Counties have densities that match those of much of North Jersey. Overall, it's a smaller geographic area that has this density, which is to be expected since Philly is much smaller than NYC, but I think more of those communities would have been well-served by lines. I mean, if places as far out and less dense as Hackettstown, Gladstone, and High Bridge can have rail stations, places like Mt. Laurel and Washington Twp. definitely could have used them as well.
Also, as far as resistance coming from towns on new lines, I believe it was only Wenonah, which is a super small town anyway, that voted against the Glassboro-Camden Line project. Every other town on the proposed line supports it. But American Dream will be finishes before that ever gets started on anyway, IF it ever gets started on (which I don't think it will). Haddon Township seems to finally be coming around and getting their TOD ready for building. I agree though. Local leadership has been lacking on these fronts very much as well. It's very frustrating on many levels, but I don't think Trenton has cared about helping the region at all for a very long time.
Remember, South Jersey almost tried to secede because they were angry that they weren't getting any NJ Transit projects at all. That's when they finally got a bone thrown at them with the Atlantic City Line. So, I think the impression that overall the area doesn't care about mass transit is a little misguided.
The only reason that the secession didn't happen is because the state removed the question from our ballots in Camden & Gloucester counties. The other counties voted to secede. The state swore that they'd fix the mess at 295 & 42. That was 1980. We did get rt 55 out of it.
Bus service in South Jersey came from Red Arrow. Our taxes went to pay for roads & transit in North Jersey & our bus service came from a private company in Pennsylvania. When SEPTA took over the Red Arrow routes it was publicly debated whether they should provide us with bus service. Our only train line into Philadelphia came from the DRPA. They tried to get a line going through Moorestown & another to Glassboro & Trenton said no. There was a lot of federal funds available.
Location: The place where the road & the sky collide
23,813 posts, read 34,657,307 times
Reputation: 10256
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJhighlands87
Yeah, that's a bit unfair to Philly. Center City, Manayunk, NorLibs/Fishtown, UCity, Fairmount, and parts of South Philly all have a lot of young people with lots of great nightlife, maybe not quite on par with Manhattan, but what is? True, you will encounter a decent number of long-time locals, but overall I can't think of too many places better for young singles.
Mass transit relies on density, so it makes sense the denser half of the state has a much higher proportion of the transit. And those in SJ don't make much use of what they have. PATCO trains are 70% empty outside of rush hour, and some towns actively resisted new lines for fear of "undesirables" coming in. DRVPA doesn't help much with its inability to develop PATCO lots, though from what I hear Haddonfield is actually resistant towards any kind of TOD in town. Haddon Township has managed to snarl their own project for ten years.
SJ does have a good number of wineries, craft breweries, and a surprising coffee scene. I disagree regarding outdoor activities though. A lot of towns in Morris, Somerset, Hunterdon, and Sussex have amazing hiking and parks. Patriot's Path in Morris links nearly the whole county with interconnected trails. Even individual municipalities like Randolph and Mendham have their own rustic trail networks and taking you through hills, forests, and small waterfalls. In SJ, you have drive 40 minutes to the Pine Barrens for that sort of thing. Haddonfield and Cherry Hill have a few decent parks tucked away, but much of the region just seems to be houses, shopping centers and roads. Even Cooper River Park is kinda boring IMO, little shade and not much interesting to look at besides the Philly skyline in the distance.
Keep this in mind. As much as you people from North Jersey like to look down on South Jersey, people in South Jersey do not aspire to be like North Jersey.
places like Mt. Laurel and Washington Twp. definitely could have used them as well.
Atleast with Mt.Laurel, a lot of people end up working in places in Princeton/Mercer, Yardley/Newtown, NE Philly/Bensalem, Wilmington and Willow Grove, and within South Jersey. One problem is Center City doesn't draw the jobs like those places combined. Also, in my opinion, a deficiency of PATCO is not going all the way west to 30th St. station. To get the PHL via PATCO, one has to change multiple lines. If one is going to Providence by rail, one might as well start from Trenton.
For these reasons, I don't know how popular a spur line would be in Mt.Laurel.
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