Where does South Jersey begin? (Toms River, Trenton: crime, tax, place to live)

[naesc]

This is always a fascinating topic to me. I very much enjoy the debate of whether Central Jersey exists and where it is. I live in Hamilton in Mercer County, but I’m very close to the Burlington County border on route 206.

Burlington County is commonly referred as South Jersey while Mercer is almost always considered central. With that said, I don’t get a South Jersey vibe from downtown Bordentown. While it’s in Burlington County, it feels much more like central to me. I feel the transition to South Jersey becomes more noticeable as you get south of the 295/Rt 130 interchange. I feel like anything south of that, culturally and visibly is South Jersey.

There are many different theories as to where South Jersey begins, I’ve read anything south of 195 to the Burlington County border. Does anyone have other thoughts?

Conversely, I think the 295/Rt 1 interchange in Lawrenceville heading north is where I think you start to see North Jersey influence.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by naesc

This is always a fascinating topic to me. I very much enjoy the debate of whether Central Jersey exists and where it is. I live in Hamilton in Mercer County, but I’m very close to the Burlington County border on route 206.

Burlington County is commonly referred as South Jersey while Mercer is almost always considered central. With that said, I don’t get a South Jersey vibe from downtown Bordentown. While it’s in Burlington County, it feels much more like central to me. I feel the transition to South Jersey becomes more noticeable as you get south of the 295/Rt 130 interchange. I feel like anything south of that, culturally and visibly is South Jersey.

There are many different theories as to where South Jersey begins, I’ve read anything south of 195 to the Burlington County border. Does anyone have other thoughts?

Conversely, I think the 295/Rt 1 interchange in Lawrenceville heading north is where I think you start to see North Jersey influence.

Traditionally, the 609/201 area codes marked the dividing line. Of course, in addition to the myriad of new area codes that have broken up the original two, New York City's sphere of influence has extended further South over the years.

I haven't been to Bordentown, but I more commonly see it associated with Trenton than Philadelphia. Mercer County has traditionally been a demilitarized zone between Philly and NYC, but it's become increasingly the latter as people have braved Manhattan commutes from further and further out.

Mercer County is an odd duck because while it's part of the New York CSA, Trenton forms its own metropolitan area. Mercer feels very exurban, and in parts even rural, outside the Hamilton-Ewing-Lawrence Township ring. Granted, Trenton is its own animal and once had a stronger cultural footprint that even crossed over into Pennsylvania. At one point the Morrisville-Yardley area was more aligned with Trenton than Philadelphia.

[Leps12]

Originally Posted by ElijahAstin

Traditionally, the 609/201 area codes marked the dividing line. Of course, in addition to the myriad of new area codes that have broken up the original two, New York City's sphere of influence has extended further South over the years.

I haven't been to Bordentown, but I more commonly see it associated with Trenton than Philadelphia. Mercer County has traditionally been a demilitarized zone between Philly and NYC, but it's become increasingly the latter as people have braved Manhattan commutes from further and further out.

Mercer County is an odd duck because while it's part of the New York CSA, Trenton forms its own metropolitan area. Mercer feels very exurban, and in parts even rural, outside the Hamilton-Ewing-Lawrence Township ring. Granted, Trenton is its own animal and once had a stronger cultural footprint that even crossed over into Pennsylvania. At one point the Morrisville-Yardley area was more aligned with Trenton than Philadelphia.

I’d say starting in Florence in Burlington County, it’s more connected to Trenton and Central Jersey-ish than South Jersey. So Bordentown is in that as well. Further out East in the county that way like Chesterfield also feels more Central. I think Columbus may be more Central as well. I just don’t see a whole lot of Philly influence in these areas. It’s not New York influenced so much either though.

Trenton proper in Mercer County still feels, if you have to choose, more connected to Philly than to NYC. This is partially reflected in media coverage. Even though Mercer County is in the NYC CSA, it is in the Philly media market. So when crime happens in Trenton, you saw Philly local news cover it much more often than NYC news channels. It is considerably closer to Philly but is also kind of the very definition of why there is Central Jersey. It connects to both Philly via SEPTA and NYC via NJ Transit, so people can commute either way if they want to.

Most of the rest of Mercer County feels like it leans more towards NYC though if you have to choose. Princeton definitely and the other towns around it like West Windsor. Robbinsville and Hamilton feel pretty evenly split but most of all still align more with Trenton than either of the two big cities. Same goes for Ewing and Lawrence.

I’d still say in PA that Morrisville and Yardley are more connected to Trenton than Philly in this day and age. Yardley these days may have just as many people commuting to NJ like Princeton and even New Brunswick than they do to a Philly. It’s become a very popular spot for people working in NJ but are looking to hop just over the border for tax purposes.

[naesc]

Thank you both for the responses. South Jersey is fascinating to me in how far south the state actually goes.

Does a town like Hammonton really have Philly influence? It is a decent amount further south than Philly. If you draw a straight line from Cape May, it is just about the equivalent of Washington DC.

It’s why NJ is such a fascinating state to me. From where I am in Mercer County, I can drive 15 minutes south on 206 and firmly be in rural, South Jersey. I can also make the same drive north hopping on route 1 and see significant northern influence.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by naesc

Thank you both for the responses. South Jersey is fascinating to me in how far south the state actually goes.

Does a town like Hammonton really have Philly influence? It is a decent amount further south than Philly. If you draw a straight line from Cape May, it is just about the equivalent of Washington DC.

It’s why NJ is such a fascinating state to me. From where I am in Mercer County, I can drive 15 minutes south on 206 and firmly be in rural, South Jersey. I can also make the same drive north hopping on route 1 and see significant northern influence.

The entire South Jersey Shore (Brigantine on down) has some degree of Philly influence (albeit the outer edges) by virtue of seasonal resident and vacation patterns. I know Hammonton is a Mainland town, but it’s still part of, and meaningfully connected to, Atlantic County.

LBI has traditionally been a demilitarized zone, though I think it’s become less connected with Philly over time.

[Leps12]

Originally Posted by naesc

Thank you both for the responses. South Jersey is fascinating to me in how far south the state actually goes.

Does a town like Hammonton really have Philly influence? It is a decent amount further south than Philly. If you draw a straight line from Cape May, it is just about the equivalent of Washington DC.

It’s why NJ is such a fascinating state to me. From where I am in Mercer County, I can drive 15 minutes south on 206 and firmly be in rural, South Jersey. I can also make the same drive north hopping on route 1 and see significant northern influence.

Burlington County in particular is interesting. It is the largest county by area in the state and is also the most diverse in landscape and vibe. The southwestern quarter of the county are heavily developed Philly suburbs. Some pretty well off towns like Moorestown, Marlton, Mount Laurel, and Medford. Some not as well off like Maple Shade and Willingboro. Lots of suburban sprawl. The northwestern quarter are the towns we mentioned above in the Trenton sphere of influence. Along the Delaware River the whole way through, it is somewhat urbanized even, and shows off an industrial legacy. Think Burlington, Riverside, and Palmyra for example. The eastern half of the county is either farms, army bases, or the Pine Barrens, especially the Pine Barrens in the southeastern quarter. If you look closely on the map, you see that Burlington County almost qualifies as part of the Jersey Shore because it daggers southeast into a bay that directly empties into the Atlantic Ocean!

Hammonton has some Philly influence. I’d say more than Bordentown has. They are solid Philly territory for sports and arguably show a little more Philly in food as well, but it’s not overwhelming. But it’s kind of its own thing as well. It’s evenly distanced between Philly and Atlantic City but also not super close to either. But it has its own vibe built around the Pine Barrens, agriculture, and wine. It’s a great place if you are an outdoorsy type.

[naesc]

I also wonder about commuting to NYC vs Philly. Is Hamilton the furthest south in the state where you see significant NYC commuters via NJ Transit?

I can’t imagine many people from Burlington County who trek up to Manhattan to commute, maybe it is doable if it is 2-3 times per week.

Personally, I love Mount Holly. I think it is a great little town. The addition of breweries in recent years (Village Idiot & Spellbound) have really made it a destination for a lot of people on weekends. It has some historic charm too. Unfortunately, for Mount Holly it seems like any growth would be limited as you really can’t commute to either Philly or NYC from the town. Also, no train goes through it.

I do think Bordentown city is a hidden gem in NJ. If you are familiar with Bucks County, it reminds me a bit of Doylestown. Just a great town and a great place to live if you want walkability. It is also much more affordable than Princeton. Maybe Bordentown is the furthest south in the state that a commute to NYC is possible.

[Leps12]

Originally Posted by naesc

I also wonder about commuting to NYC vs Philly. Is Hamilton the furthest south in the state where you see significant NYC commuters via NJ Transit?

I can’t imagine many people from Burlington County who trek up to Manhattan to commute, maybe it is doable if it is 2-3 times per week.

Personally, I love Mount Holly. I think it is a great little town. The addition of breweries in recent years (Village Idiot & Spellbound) have really made it a destination for a lot of people on weekends. It has some historic charm too. Unfortunately, for Mount Holly it seems like any growth would be limited as you really can’t commute to either Philly or NYC from the town. Also, no train goes through it.

I do think Bordentown city is a hidden gem in NJ. If you are familiar with Bucks County, it reminds me a bit of Doylestown. Just a great town and a great place to live if you want walkability. It is also much more affordable than Princeton. Maybe Bordentown is the furthest south in the state that a commute to NYC is possible.

You can commute by car from Mount Holly to Philly. It’s not the greatest commute, but people do far worse, especially those commuting to Philly from some of the further reaches of the PA suburbs, which extend further out than the NJ Philly suburbs do.

[naesc]

Just looked at the map of Burlington County, and wow it goes significantly east, very close to Beach Haven. Fascinating.

Burlington County really does offer just about everything minus northern influence. Probably the most versatile NJ county, maybe Monmouth could have an argument. Monmouth arguably has north influence, south influence & definitely the Jersey shore all within the county.

[kelsie]

We live in Tuckerton, raised our kids on the mainland in Barnegat in the 70's. If you spoke to the locals even today, anything past Forked River going into Toms River is considered North Jersey!