Affordable housing development will be built in Livingston (Newark, Paterson: low income, apartment)

[mumra]

Sorry livingstonites I feel your pain. This would make anyone angry to buy a home in a nice town and pay a premium to get away from that element only to find out that it will be built in your backyard, it is sickening.

Livingston makes deal to allow affordable housing development | NJ.com

[mgt04]

Originally Posted by mumra

Sorry livingstonites I feel your pain. This would make anyone angry to buy a home in a nice town and pay a premium to get away from that element only to find out that it will be built in your backyard, it is sickening.

Livingston makes deal to allow affordable housing development | NJ.com

So true...this is sickening. I bet this development won't even pay up its fair share of property taxes in Livingston and will be assessed more like if it were built in a bad part of Newark.

[Docendo discimus]

I almost feel even worse for the Millburn people on the Livingston border...they will be affected in the same way and have even less say because they are not Livingston residents.

Too bad Don's had to go out of business at that site. Best burgers and mixed pickle. No doubt the rent on that site was too much of a burden.

Greedy developers (and other parties with personal agendas) have their eyes on every "under utilized" space in town. And you'd be surprised what's considered "under utilized". The COAH laws made some giant steaming messes.

If Livingston, and any other municipality, is forced to provide any kind of "affordable housing", it should go to the senior citizens who have lived in town since the 50s, paid property taxes since the 50s, have been members of the community since the 50s, and even though they have owned their homes outright for the past 20 years, are struggling to make ends meet because of the property taxes.

This is an even bigger fiasco than the town center development.

[JCK7778]

I find it interesting that everyone assumes that it will be what you consider "undesireables" that will benefit from this. Just because someone does not make a lot of money does not mean that they are undesirable and any less worthy of living in a nice community then those can afford the $1M+ homes that are in the area. With the cost of taxes in this state (I pay almost $6000 for an 1100 sq foot condo in a very nice community) as well as the cost of housing (both owning and renting) it is a shame that people who can afford to live in the lap of luxury are not more open minded vs. shunning a certain class of people before they have even had a chance to prove you wrong.

[JohnSLX]

One of my clients who owns a chain of franchise retail stores, is a 15 year resident of Livingston. He gave me what I thought was a pretty amazing story several months ago. He said this issue is a Very Big Deal in town & Lots of Concern among Livingston, Short Hills & Millburn residents.

He narrated a story of about 80-90 Lawyers , all Livingston residents, ( he added that he was overwhelmed by the number of high powered lawyers living in Livingston) getting together & putting their minds together to solve this issue & to put some pressure on town officials.

(I pointed out to him that that's a whole lot of lawyers for one medium size suburban town. Even towns two or three times the size of Livingston wouldn't have that number of lawyers ( or doctors)
But he told me with a grin that did you forget that we have a large population of very successful jewish residents combined with lots of wealthy Asian-american residents)
But he was also equally fascinated when he heard a large group of Doctors, all Livingston residents, also doing their own caucus. While a group of business owners who lived in Livingston also had their own lobby. ( For those who may not be aware, 3 of the top 10 Hedge Fund Managers in the country call Livingston home. )


This guy said that others told him that the Exact Same movement was going on in Millburn/Short Hills.
This client of mine is Indian. He said that they were heavily represented among Doctors who were protesting this issue.

My only observation in all this is Livingston has virtually ZERO apartment dwellings in town. Even townhomes have only been in existence in the last 10 years. And they are all at least $600K to $ 1.8 million for townhomes.

Then you consider the 4-5 super affluent enclaves within town ( such as Bel-air 1, Bel-Air 2, Chestnut hills, Governor Kean area, etc. )

I'm not surprised with the uproar.

[mark212cpa]

JCK77

Let me throw my 2 cents on this.

I understand your point & sentiment on this low income housing issue.

However, let me put myself in the shoes of these Livingston, Short Hills, Millburn residents.

I also happen to have Tax clients who are from both Millburn & Livingston for many years.

For almost all of these people, its all about PROTECTING their Financial interest.

Putting up Low Income Apartment units is a Real, True, and Understandable Concern/Fear among many if not most homeowners especially those in upper middle, and wealthy towns.

Why? because We've all seen this Movie before played out across middle, upper middle, and wealthy towns in many states across the country in the last 2,3 decades. - especially back in the 80's & 90's when low income housing was forced/mandated on many wealthy towns. In many cases, it really changed the community. It literally created " SECTIONS OF TOWNS" that in many cases, caused problems that eventually affected property values.

If you had this issue in more conservative wealthy leaning places like Chatham, Mendham, Chester, Bernardsville, Alpine, Franklin Lakes, Bedminster, Far Hills, etc etc- You would get the EXACT SAME RESPONSE ( even much worse in many cases)

Most people who live in All these expensive towns choose to pay very high taxes, pay for very expensive ( many times overpriced) homes for many reasons. One of them is having the PEACE OF MIND that their property values will be protected because most of the new residents who will move in for years to come will very likely be professionals, business owners, executives- successful people.

A $ 600,000 home in Millburn will get you a 60-80 yr. old home, a box, a simple one car garage & no lot. ( and a very high tax bill)

There's a reason for all that. There's a reason people in these towns are willing to pay for less.

Always remember that.

Its also a fact in any community in NJ, in america or any developed country, that CRIME is MUCH HIGHER, MUCH MORE PREVALENT in neighborhoods with Lower Income residents.

Just as its also a fact, that towns with a Higher proportion of Renters experience more social issues like crime than towns with a higher proportion of HomeOwners.

The same comparison goes with towns with more Highly educated people compared to towns with mostly blue collar, high school diploma residents.

These are facts of life. For many of these people, their homes are their biggest, in some cases, their only REAL ASSET. Many are not about to make some " social, moral statement" at the expense of their property values.

Lastly, if there is one thing others can't accuse Livingston & Millburn township- that its some kind of conservative, red neck town.

Both Livingston & Millburn gave Barack Obama landslide wins. Both towns voted for Bill Clinton, Al Gore, & John Kerry. Its as wealthy liberal as you will get.

Can you imagine the uproar if these low income housing issues start popping up in more right leaning conservative towns in Morris county, Somerset county & parts of Bergen.

At the end of the day, its about homeowners protecting anything that may negatively affect the BIGGEST INVESTMENT of their lives.

( Mixing a Financial issue with a moral/social issue will not work in this case. )

Some renters may not understand where these people are coming from. but I guarantee many if not most homeowners will do.



You ha

[tahiti]

Peapack/Gladstone has low income housing, the world did not stop revolving on its axis.

[Whoelsebutcharles]

People just need a good kick to be reminded of what the real world is like again.

You'll never see me moving to that money pit of a place. I could roll around on the floor in millions of dollars and never even think about buying in that club for elites.

[Docendo discimus]

Originally Posted by JCK7778

I find it interesting that everyone assumes that it will be what you consider "undesireables" that will benefit from this. Just because someone does not make a lot of money does not mean that they are undesirable and any less worthy of living in a nice community then those can afford the $1M+ homes that are in the area. With the cost of taxes in this state (I pay almost $6000 for an 1100 sq foot condo in a very nice community) as well as the cost of housing (both owning and renting) it is a shame that people who can afford to live in the lap of luxury are not more open minded vs. shunning a certain class of people before they have even had a chance to prove you wrong.

I was a 25+ year resident of Livingston. I have to say, Livingstonites do NOT all live in the lap of luxury. The majority are middle class and live in modest ranches or split levels...I've seen many comments on this board, as well as heard many comments off line, that most of the houses in Livingston are "1950s crapboxes". Those of us living in those 1950s crapboxes are not living in the lap of luxury.

Also, it's kind of a misnomer to call this development an "affordable housing development". It's a development that has some affordable housing units within it. 62 units total; 50 regular units and 12 affordable housing units. The developer originally wanted to build 100+. From what I understand, the COAH laws let builders build more units, if they set aside a certain number of units for affordable housing. This is about greedy builders wanting to make as much money as they can...they don't give a rip about affordable housing...that's just their strategy for getting the state to override the town's objections.

100+ units at that site? Anyone familiar with that corner knows how absurd that is.

Most of us, when we protest these developments, are not protesting a certain class of people. We are not protesting 12 units. We are protesting all 62 units (originally 100+), including the 50 that are NOT affordable housing units. We are protesting the fact that we used to be able to look out our backyards and see trees. Now, we will see a giant building and a giant parking lot. There will also be extra traffic (and noise) on top of the congestion that already exists. We are protesting that our lives used to be quiet & peaceful. If we wanted hustle & bustle and live amongst high rises, we would have chosen to settle in a city, not a suburban bedroom community.

You should have heard the uproar when they announced the plans for the new town center: a "mixed use" residential complex with UPSCALE shops and MILLION dollar townhomes. No affordable housing in that development at all. Yet people were just as up in arms. People are still unhappy with it. Again, too much hustle & bustle, right outside your window, where once there was peace & quiet.

[MarieLLC]

listen, I grew up in Tenafly. Now own a home in Mountain Lakes.
My husband & I volunteer a lot of our personal time & money with helping catholic charities for the homeless & for young single mothers. ( In areas like Paterson, Elizabeth & jersey city)

We dont just throw money at the problem, we actually give our valuable personal time with these people who need help.
We are as Moderate/Open Independent minded white italian catholic voters as you will get. We both have a college degree. We've worked very hard to reach some financial success in life for our children. We voted for Bush Sr. voted for bill Clinton, voted for Bush jr. then, Kerry and voted for Obama. we also voted for Chris Christie.
Now I agree 100% with the sentiments of people of Millburn, SH & LIV.
It is very easy for others who either Do Not Live in these neighborhoods Or who are Not homeowners to be critical. How can you understand them unless you live in a similar neighborhod demographic & are a homeowner?

Why in the world would you smack a low income housing right in the middle of probably Wealthiest Area in Essex County? What reaction did you expect from these homeowners.

The biggest "myth" by others is that all these residents of Livingston, Millburn are all flowing with money when they were born. I have met & been friends with many parionshers in St. Philomena's, St Raphael & St. Rose ( LIV & Short Hills) thru volunteer work.
I can tell you that Majority of these people are: Two Income 6 Figure couples who work their butts off all these years in order to live in these towns & send their kids to the best public schools. Many worked their butts off in corporate america to move up, many painstakenly worked on their MBA, some worked on getting their Law degree, their medical degree that Now affords them the REWARD of living in a town with very good schools, a strong resale value, and safe neighborhoods. and living with like minded highly successful people.

They are paying for all this. Nothing is free, nothing was given to them.

Now why would anyone criticize them for a legitimate fear of something affecting their town?

This is not some minor issues. For many of them, the value of their homes are their only vehicle for retirement after paying for college, taxes, and their mortgage.

Some here equate wealth & material success as something evil.

Sorry folks, there are millions of very good, decent, hardworking, loving people who also happen to have done fairly well financially.

I will bet my money that we spend more personal time with the homeless, the poor, the single mother, than many people who have more time in their hands & less successful financially.

If someone tells me that Money is evil, I asked them straight, How many years have you been broke?