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Old 08-08-2010, 12:34 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,076 posts, read 9,370,897 times
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captain - what about recycling is BS?

seque5tra - Styrofoam isn't recyclable is it?

i could easily get by with 1 pickup per week, and would prefer 1 recycling night, not alternating ones. I end up with either a lot of commingled or a lot of paper/carboard since it's every 2 weeks.

i put my garbage out last sunday. tonight, i'll put it out with 1 almost full kitchen garbage bag. and that's only because we cleaned out our fridge today with some old leftovers. if my composter wasn't full right now, i'd be able to put most of what i cleaned out in my composter, and still wouldn't even have much trash after a full week. lol.

i dunno, it's nice to be able to get rid of smelly garbage if it's sitting around, but i'm hoping i'm not paying a ton extra for 2 nights vs 1 night.
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Old 08-08-2010, 01:44 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
17,679 posts, read 14,546,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
captain - what about recycling is BS?
process uses more resources than it saves. its expensive. there is no real value to it, only a fictitious mental benefit and job creation.
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:57 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
process uses more resources than it saves. its expensive. there is no real value to it, only a fictitious mental benefit and job creation.
i disagree entirely. sorry, but i've heard this argument before (sounds like you watched penn and teller recently). it does create jobs, but that's not even entirely a great argument because it's reducing trash, which is shifting jobs from a landfill to a recycling center with maybe a slight net gain. it doesn't use more resources than it saves, though some recycling does. paper recycling is a resource intensive process. but, garbage has to be collected either way, so the collection piece can't be counted as using resources in recycling, those resources are used either way. it also reduces space taken up in landfills, and reduces methane production. aluminum is one of the items that absolutely makes sense to recycle. plastic is a close second. one of the problems is that not enough companies currently reuse the plastics that are recycled, which would even further increase the benefits of recycling plastic.

trash has to be processed either way, the few extra steps it takes to recycle things like plastic and most metals use less energy than creating those metals and plastics from scratch.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:04 PM
 
1,195 posts, read 1,829,323 times
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Originally Posted by bradykp View Post

seque5tra - Styrofoam isn't recyclable is it?
Yep! A lot of it has the recycling triangle logo on it somewhere. For example, egg cartons and the styrofoam trays from the meat department. However, not all towns recycle styrofoam. Livingston does, but not sure about any others.
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Old 08-08-2010, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
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Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
trash has to be processed either way, the few extra steps it takes to recycle things like plastic and most metals use less energy than creating those metals and plastics from scratch.
its not just a few steps more to recycle. you have to sort them, break them down and create something thats of good enough quality to use. every now and then i see some products that say they have like 10% recycled product in them. sounds wonderful.

it uses more resources and costs more. it hurts rather than helps.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:23 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
its not just a few steps more to recycle. you have to sort them, break them down and create something thats of good enough quality to use. every now and then i see some products that say they have like 10% recycled product in them. sounds wonderful.

it uses more resources and costs more. it hurts rather than helps.
you got any numbers to back that up? it uses only slightly more resources than regular trash sorting (and even less so with new technologies that are available at newar sorting facilities - many areas in Maryland for instance don't even have to sort their trash and recyclables, it's all done at the facility). also, plenty of products have only slight amounts of recycled product, but some are better than others. The trash bags I purchase for instance are 65% recycled materials, 40% of which is post-consumer recycled material.

there are estimates that only 11% of plastic bottles in the US get recycled. if that number increased, we would see energy savings in making plastic.

people occasionally knock recycling and say it uses more resources, but they can rarely back it up with real information because the only studies that exist are put out by conservative PACs or companies that are against recycling. i'm not saying it's perfect and all is honky-dory, but it's a pretty efficient process that is getting better and with most materials that can be recycled, it is a net-positive rather than creating brand new aluminum from scratch.
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
17,679 posts, read 14,546,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
you got any numbers to back that up? it uses only slightly more resources than regular trash sorting (and even less so with new technologies that are available at newar sorting facilities - many areas in Maryland for instance don't even have to sort their trash and recyclables, it's all done at the facility). also, plenty of products have only slight amounts of recycled product, but some are better than others. The trash bags I purchase for instance are 65% recycled materials, 40% of which is post-consumer recycled material.

there are estimates that only 11% of plastic bottles in the US get recycled. if that number increased, we would see energy savings in making plastic.

people occasionally knock recycling and say it uses more resources, but they can rarely back it up with real information because the only studies that exist are put out by conservative PACs or companies that are against recycling. i'm not saying it's perfect and all is honky-dory, but it's a pretty efficient process that is getting better and with most materials that can be recycled, it is a net-positive rather than creating brand new aluminum from scratch.
recycling is more religion than reality. come on, its so obvious that it uses more resources and it causes more pollution. logically, the only potential savings would be that it will take longer to use up earth's natural supply of paper, plastic and glass. i dont really think anyone mentions that we are running low on the resources used to make plastic or glass so that leaves trees for paper. it would be more efficient to plant more trees than go through the recycling process.

by recycling, you are pretty much doing everything you are doing when making the product from raw materials plus the additional steps of sorting the items and breaking them down. then you have to worry about the quality of the product and the expense you have added because of all of these processes. it makes no sense.
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Old 08-10-2010, 08:31 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,076 posts, read 9,370,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
recycling is more religion than reality. come on, its so obvious that it uses more resources and it causes more pollution. logically, the only potential savings would be that it will take longer to use up earth's natural supply of paper, plastic and glass. i dont really think anyone mentions that we are running low on the resources used to make plastic or glass so that leaves trees for paper. it would be more efficient to plant more trees than go through the recycling process.

by recycling, you are pretty much doing everything you are doing when making the product from raw materials plus the additional steps of sorting the items and breaking them down. then you have to worry about the quality of the product and the expense you have added because of all of these processes. it makes no sense.
yet you still don't offer a single number.

Recycling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do the Benefits of Recycling Outweigh the Costs?

Recycling Facts


*Recycling paper instead of making it from new material generates 74 percent less air pollution and uses 50 percent less water.

*Producing recycled paper requires about 60 percent of the energy used to make paper from virgin wood pulp.

*Recycling aluminum saves 95% of the energy needed to produce new aluminum from raw materials. Energy saved from recycling one ton of aluminum is equal to the amount of electricity the average home uses over 10 years.

*Recycling aluminum saves 95% of the energy used to make the material from scratch. That means you can make 20 cans out of recycled material with the same amount of energy it takes to make one can out of new material. Energy savings in 1993 alone were enough to light a city the size of Pittsburgh for six years.


*Recycling steel and tin cans saves 74% of the energy used to produce them.



i mean - there's a few things - recycling is more efficient now than it used to be. garbage collection is more expensive than it used to be.

you're not wrong entirely, but you've yet to back it up at all. planting trees, fertilizing them, cutting them down, trucking them to a plant, etc - is not more efficient than recycling fibers into new products. if we were permitted to use hemp for paper, might be a different conversation.
you're not doing everything you do when making a raw material. you don't have to mine for the mineral. the breaking down to recycle is more efficient than virgin materials. it's not always by a lot - but it is.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Historic Downtown Jersey City
2,707 posts, read 5,000,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
OK - so I've lived in NJ for about 6 years now, most of that in Hoboken, and now in West Orange. Hoboken had 3 or 4 trash pickups per week, plus another 3 recycling nights. I understand in a town as densely populated as Hoboken with many apartment buildings having multiple trash nights, but maybe not 4. West Orange has 2. I'm from PA originally and I don't know of any towns that have more than 1 (maybe Philly does).

I wonder - is this a wasted expense by many towns, or is it a nice service to have? Do we really generate that much trash here vs other towns? Or is it something else?
Hoboken has FOUR trash pickups, and an additional THREE pickups for recycling??? Holy cow. Where I live is just as dense as Hoboken and I only get 2 trash pickups, and one recycling day.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:22 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,076 posts, read 9,370,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommyc_37 View Post
Hoboken has FOUR trash pickups, and an additional THREE pickups for recycling??? Holy cow. Where I live is just as dense as Hoboken and I only get 2 trash pickups, and one recycling day.
yeah - every night was something. either garbage, cardboard, or commingled. i think it was 4, 1, 3. but it might have been slightly different. maybe it was 3, 2, 2. it was crazy. jersey city is pretty dense. dunno. seems like you guys get by fine with less pickups. lol
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