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Thread summary:

New Jersey: college, traffic, cost of living, bankrupts, taxes.

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Old 06-27-2007, 06:33 PM
 
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When I said Philly was more than New Jersey has to offer, I meant it has more to offer than NJ's cities. Most of the cities here are ****holes. Atlantic city has its good sides...but anyway...

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Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
do yourself a favor - take some time and drive somewhere outside the 10 miles radius of your house. you'll then be able to present a more logical argument - and maybe in the meantime you'll learn a thing or two.
I've been through a lot of New Jersey. I live in the south and go to school in central, and I've seen a decent amount of the north. Yes, NJ has its fair share of nice towns and all, but there aren't enough areas where you can get away from people. I haven't been to whatever county you were referring to in the northwest, not for more than a few minutes at least. Also, I'm not arguing anything. I'm stating my opinion having lived here the past 18 years of my life. I hear it's chill as hell out west, I have a friend who moved to a town outside Portland, Oregon from NJ and loves it. His town is good, people are friendly, he really likes Portland, and he lives an hour from Mt. Hood.
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Old 06-27-2007, 06:47 PM
 
2,758 posts, read 5,216,195 times
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Originally Posted by moe jones View Post
When I said Philly was more than New Jersey has to offer, I meant it has more to offer than NJ's cities. Most of the cities here are ****holes. Atlantic city has its good sides...but anyway...



I've been through a lot of New Jersey. I live in the south and go to school in central, and I've seen a decent amount of the north. Yes, NJ has its fair share of nice towns and all, but there aren't enough areas where you can get away from people. I haven't been to whatever county you were referring to in the northwest, not for more than a few minutes at least. Also, I'm not arguing anything. I'm stating my opinion having lived here the past 18 years of my life. I hear it's chill as hell out west, I have a friend who moved to a town outside Portland, Oregon from NJ and loves it. His town is good, people are friendly, he really likes Portland, and he lives an hour from Mt. Hood.
I think Philly's nice also but my experiences are all purely downtown. Part of NJ's size is it's relation to two of the largest cities in the US. Philly and NYC are both tucked on NJ's borders. A lot of New Yorkers come over here to play and vice versa, we go there to work. I'm big on NJ identity but NYC isn't NYC by itself...and neither is Philly
-As this is the most dense state there's no argument that this ain't the state to really, I mean REALLY get away from people. We're just not built that way, some areas are simply less dense.
Portland is a very nice 'green' town
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Old 06-28-2007, 07:20 AM
 
Location: Central Jersey - Florida
3,314 posts, read 12,255,762 times
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I can't wait for the day when all the people that complain about NJ and say they are leaving actually do it. If only half would it would be "GREAT" place to live. Less traffic, less congestion, less pollution and yes less whining. If you have an issue with taxes and the cost of housing we all get it. By the way Alaska is probably the least populated state by size, you can probably find a place there where you would have plenty of space for your self!
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Old 06-28-2007, 10:03 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
1,508 posts, read 5,382,823 times
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Talking whoa....You read my mind.

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Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
Anyway, I digress. Bottom line, to love where you live now doesn't necessitate blasting where you came from and denying there's ANY good here (e.g. NJ SUCKS - all 7419 sq miles of it! lol) - it's ignorant.
Very well said. I could not agree w/ you more.

Points for you (finally)
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Old 06-28-2007, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
515 posts, read 2,065,710 times
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Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
I don't look at NJ with rose colored glasses - this state has its problems, no doubt. However, it's NO WORSE than any other state in the US (I traveled the US for 6 years straight - 48 weeks a year - I think I have a clue about other areas) , even California. Just look around on C-D at other state boards and you'll very quickly notice everyone has their own ax to grind - whether it is abysmal schools, lack of or low paying jobs, high taxes, influx of yankees, complete and utter abject poverty (likes of which you will NOT see in this state - even in the worst areas), cost of housing, sprawl, cookie cutter subdivisions, poor mass-transit, bland scenery, too cold, too hot, real estate market plunge, too many immigrants, too red, too blue, corrupt politicians, the list goes on and on. I like to think I look at all places objectively, without emotion (which many NJ-haters cannot seem to do) and you know what? This is a pretty damn good place to live. Too bad 66nexus, downtownjc and I are the only ones who feel this way.
Also, I've also noticed that whenever anyone gives the old "I'M LEAVING!" speech, the reasons are because of the "traits" (for lack of a better word) of Northeastern NJ. I laugh, because everything that is listed is NOT my reality (well, except for high prop taxes, lol) - and I'm in Northern NJ too. The broad generalizations just crack me up.
You don't need 800K to get a nice house here - let's be REAL! I have a friend who just bought the cutest house in Red Bank - less than $300K (completed revamped) and taxes less than $3500 - but that doesn't count, right?
I won't get into a pissing match between socal and NJ, but IMHO (and yes, i've been there and have a friend in San Clemente), it's no better than here. Weather? Depends. Not having cold at Christmastime would depress the hell out of me. And I just learned there are no lightning bugs there!!! OmG! What's a summer without kids going out and catching lightning bugs!?!
Anyway, I digress. Bottom line, to love where you live now doesn't necessitate blasting where you came from and denying there's ANY good here (e.g. NJ SUCKS - all 7419 sq miles of it! lol) - it's ignorant.
Never said it ALL sucks, just that many other places are better. Specifically in CA, I am looking at Sacramento area - I have no interest in SoCal, largely because of the overcrowding and high cost of living I want to escape from! Sacto has 4 seasons, fall foliage, mild winters (no snow, seldom below 32 degrees), long dry hot summers and virtually no humidity. You can rent "800K - million dollar" Bergen county houses for $1600/month. I am not even exagerating - check Craig's List. But the biggest part of the appeal for me is the proximity to lots of amazing places, National parks, Napa, San Fran, Tahoe, etc. - all within 2 hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 66nexus View Post
800k-to a million a year is a extreme. I think you probably just have high standards.
-I've been all over this country and it is because of that that I do actually appreciate this state more.
-You can't ride a Jersey experience on Bergen County which I think is in the top 3 expensive counties in the state and nation.
-You said people look at Jerze through rose-colored glasses but honestly, it seems that you don't want to view the things you hate about NJ in your beloved Cali.
-Doesn't LA still have the worst traffic in the nation? With more cars registered in its metro than all the cars in Russia? I'm pretty sure people are still going to cut you off...
NorCal has winters as bad as Jerze's so you must be talking about SoCal. And it is because of the smog problem that California has some of, if not the strictest, emission laws in the nation. The CARB (California Air Restriction Board) I believe
See above - Central Cal is my plan. LA sucks, I'd stay here before I would go there! Yes, I am talking mostly about Bergen county, but I know Essex, Passaic and Union are all frightfully expensive as well, at least in the better areas. I now it's cheaper if you head further south, but even south Jersey I believe, is still more expensive than most of the country. I would choose the Philly burbs if I was heading that direction, which I like more.

Like I said, I am not saying it's all bad, I am venting frustration from spending so many years here, and I am including the whole greater NYC metro area in this, and I just HATE it here. And compared to some people, I have it pretty good - short commute w/ minimal traffic, nice area to live, good job, etc. There have been circumstances that prevented me from leaving, and they finally seem to be easing up.

When I started researching other areas I started to realize how much I have been missing. I don't begrudge the many happy new Jerseyans... I grew up here, had a great childhood in Westfield, and have spent much of my adult life in Bergen county and in Rockland county NY (which is just more of the same). Just time to move on to greener pastures, and I know I will never be back.
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Old 06-28-2007, 03:15 PM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 30,935,086 times
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Originally Posted by cinnabon View Post
Never said it ALL sucks, just that many other places are better. Specifically in CA, I am looking at Sacramento area - I have no interest in SoCal, largely because of the overcrowding and high cost of living I want to escape from! Sacto has 4 seasons, fall foliage, mild winters (no snow, seldom below 32 degrees), long dry hot summers and virtually no humidity. You can rent "800K - million dollar" Bergen county houses for $1600/month. I am not even exagerating - check Craig's List. But the biggest part of the appeal for me is the proximity to lots of amazing places, National parks, Napa, San Fran, Tahoe, etc. - all within 2 hours.
Sacramento real estate is OUT of control!!! Have you looked? Talk about an overpriced housing stock. You think NJ is crazy - OMG! Houses that you could've purchased in Sac in 2000 for $200K are now $600K because of influx of Bay Area residents. And property? Pfffft - you get a postage stamp (I went to take a picture of my sister in law's house, and literally had to stand on her neighbor's porch across the street to get the whole house in the viewfinder!). CA state taxes are way higher than NJ, gas prices are at least .50 cents more a gallon, and your property taxes, depending on the price of your house, will be only slightly lower. They tax clothing.

Now, this is personal preference - but the Sac. area in my opinion is my least favorite in CA. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I went there - flat like Texas (didn't see much green, except within city limits), with these horrid cookie cutter developments (which make Jersey's look positively random!) just plopped off to the side. You drive down the road and it's nothing, nothing, nothing, oh! a development!, nothing, nothing nothing, oh! yeah, here's another one!..and it looks just like the previous one! tan stucco! - and this was Sac. PROPER!!! I guess I was expecting "Eight is Enough" neighborhoods - and didn't see it, lol.

I'm sure you've been out there so I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but seriously, make sure you do your math - I'm not quite convinced you'll save money out there - and also, I don't think you're going to escape the overcrowding like you think - Sac. in the Charlotte of California.

I will say though, those developments sure do have BEAUTIFUL clubhouses, pools, etc - unbelieveably gorgeous!

Good luck!
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Old 06-28-2007, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
515 posts, read 2,065,710 times
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Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
Sacramento real estate is OUT of control!!! Have you looked? Talk about an overpriced housing stock. You think NJ is crazy - OMG! Houses that you could've purchased in Sac in 2000 for $200K are now $600K because of influx of Bay Area residents. And property? Pfffft - you get a postage stamp (I went to take a picture of my sister in law's house, and literally had to stand on her neighbor's porch across the street to get the whole house in the viewfinder!). CA state taxes are way higher than NJ, gas prices are at least .50 cents more a gallon, and your property taxes, depending on the price of your house, will be only slightly lower. They tax clothing.

Now, this is personal preference - but the Sac. area in my opinion is my least favorite in CA. I was absolutely dumbfounded when I went there - flat like Texas (didn't see much green, except within city limits), with these horrid cookie cutter developments (which make Jersey's look positively random!) just plopped off to the side. You drive down the road and it's nothing, nothing, nothing, oh! a development!, nothing, nothing nothing, oh! yeah, here's another one!..and it looks just like the previous one! tan stucco! - and this was Sac. PROPER!!! I guess I was expecting "Eight is Enough" neighborhoods - and didn't see it, lol.

I'm sure you've been out there so I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, but seriously, make sure you do your math - I'm not quite convinced you'll save money out there - and also, I don't think you're going to escape the overcrowding like you think - Sac. in the Charlotte of California.

I will say though, those developments sure do have BEAUTIFUL clubhouses, pools, etc - unbelieveably gorgeous!

Good luck!
I am only looking to rent right now - and the rentals are just amazing for the money. From what I have read, in the past few years the housing market got over-inflated big time in Sact., the flippers came in, etc. But then it crashed. The houses that were 500K 1-2 years ago, have dropped down to less than 400K. People can't or don't want to sell & lose $, so the rental market is incredible! I would never consider buying there until things stabilized. Also, in the field I work in, I will probably make 20% or so more there.

Sacto may not be that pretty, and I know it's full of the cookie cutter housing developments, but that really doesn't bother me. I like that those houses are new & beautiful on the inside. I don't need a neighborhood with "character" - I've been living amongst those all my life! I'd rather have the modern amenities that older houses tend to lack. Another plus - Sac doesn't get earthquakes!

Crowds and traffic - yeah, they have it there too, but I don't think nearly to the same degree as here, with our endless suburban sprawl. You can get to nature much quicker... and the nature out there is pretty fricken amazing! (oh, and I know, Yosemite is probably the most crowded place of all )

Just like anything else, I guess it all boils down to what you are looking for. I just want a comfortable place to live that I can afford, and proximity to lots of cool things to do, especially outdoor rec. and scenic beauty. Every time I have gone to CA, I was so sad to come home. It's got the stuff I love.

Sorry to de-rail the thread with a sales pitch for Cali!
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:23 AM
 
543 posts, read 1,320,140 times
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Originally Posted by exhdo1 View Post
I can't wait for the day when all the people that complain about NJ and say they are leaving actually do it. If only half would it would be "GREAT" place to live. Less traffic, less congestion, less pollution and yes less whining. If you have an issue with taxes and the cost of housing we all get it. By the way Alaska is probably the least populated state by size, you can probably find a place there where you would have plenty of space for your self!
HAHA! I feel the same way, just do it already!
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
515 posts, read 2,065,710 times
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Originally Posted by njchick View Post
HAHA! I feel the same way, just do it already!
Too bad for every one of us that leaves 10 foreigners move in to replace us! lol
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:01 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 30,935,086 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnabon View Post
Sacto may not be that pretty, and I know it's full of the cookie cutter housing developments, but that really doesn't bother me. I like that those houses are new & beautiful on the inside. I don't need a neighborhood with "character" - I've been living amongst those all my life! I'd rather have the modern amenities that older houses tend to lack. Another plus - Sac doesn't get earthquakes!
ok, i see. if you like cookie cutter, then you're going to the right place. i really think you just want a change of scenery, and sac will sincerely give you that. i just wonder if people get bored with it after awhile. "character" i think is something you'd miss after awhile - maybe not enough to come back here, but go to someplace a little less white bread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnabon View Post
Crowds and traffic - yeah, they have it there too, but I don't think nearly to the same degree as here, with our endless suburban sprawl. You can get to nature much quicker... and the nature out there is pretty fricken amazing! (oh, and I know, Yosemite is probably the most crowded place of all )
sac is the epitome of endless suburban sprawl - i don't understand that comment. believe it or not, you can get closer to nature very quickly in NJ - from bergen county it's less than 1 hour. granted it's different, and here again i think you just want a change of scenery. and i know you believe it's a PITA to get into the city from bergen cnty - check in after you move and be honest about how much of a PITA it is getting into San Fran. - plus it's much further.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cinnabon View Post
Just like anything else, I guess it all boils down to what you are looking for. I just want a comfortable place to live that I can afford, and proximity to lots of cool things to do, especially outdoor rec. and scenic beauty. Every time I have gone to CA, I was so sad to come home. It's got the stuff I love.
exactly. but people who leave NJ don't simply say this - they have to blast NJ in the process. you yourself said we were looking at NJ with rose colored glasses, then when called on it comparing sac to nj - you agreed you were moving to a place with a lot of the same issues. just remember where you are moving to (and spending day to day) really is NOT scenic. you're sort of close to beautiful and diverse areas, but not moreso than here. lots who move from here say "well, i never go to NY anyway, it's a pain" - i have a feeling you may end up in the same boat out there after the honeymoon wears off.

i hope you like it out there, i am attracted to vastly different areas too (i think i could dig living in the phoenix area for awhile), but after the dust settles, i think it just becomes like anywhere else, and i'll start missing family.

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Originally Posted by cinnabon View Post
Sorry to de-rail the thread with a sales pitch for Cali!
no problem, i like talking about stuff like this.
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