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[quote=TheLuckoftheDraw;15509282]My dad also makes more money than I do, and I've got five degrees, four of them graduate degrees. My dad hated school, at least in terms of academics, and barely graduated from high school. The only reason he pushed through to graduate was so he could go into the Army, and the only reason he wanted to do that was to learn more about a wider array of vehicles. Ever since he was a little kid, all he wanted to do was work on cars. He started when he was about eight years old by fixing bicycles for kids in the neighborhood--they'd actually pay him to do that. So he has been a mechanic and body man all his life. He's owned his own shops, he also restores/rebuilds vintage cars, etc. At 70, he's still working and seems to have no interest in retiring. He simply loves working on cars. I think he'd be bored out of his mind if he were to try to retire. He'd just end up working on cars anyway, so why not get paid more money for it? But the classic "liberal education" was of no use to him.[/QUOTE]
It's no use to many and kids need direction. Unfortunately for some they will never get that direction in school unless they are planning on going to college. Back in the day when I attended HS ( late 60's) they still had classes classified as "shop" where kids mainly boys learned a trade and only took the academics required to graduate.
As for the welder son he was only happy working with his hands and hated school. He did graduate HS and then joined the trade union as an apprentice for 5 years.
This post should be copied, pasted and emailed to that officious NJEA president, Barbara Keshishian. This is a paradigm shift definitely worth considering. If either of my two kids came up to me and said they wanted to be an electrician, a plumber, or an auto repair person, I would encourage them to be the best one they could be. There is absolutely nothing wrong any of these trades, but unfortunately, elitists in academia who bend and shape various curriculum affix a negative stigma to them in many cases, and that's a damn shame.
I have a university education, from a top 40 school. It has opened doors and has helped me do well in my career, it was a good path for me to take. However, I am also a realist and since I work in transportation I have become very familiar with how needed skilled professions are and am continually frustrated that people are not encouraged to explore those options.
The other piece that really burns me is that the academic elitism has started leaching out into the private sector in the form of hiring criteria. How many "entry level" jobs paying $30k don't require a college degree these days? These are jobs working in a call center or as an office clerk. I swear modern Human Resources decision making came about when everyone who has a useless degree sat down and said, well let's become HR people and then change the requirements to make sure everyone needs an equally useless degree to get a job.
I worked at a rather large company in my past where virtually the entire executive level management was composed of people who were essentially self made. It was rare to see a degree on the wall. They started at the bottom and worked their way up. They also began to require college degrees for essentially entry level jobs and instituted a "glass ceiling" that people could not pass without a degree, no matter how qualified. I was rather high up in the company (director level) and partook in a lot of meetings. One thing that came up often was the lack of qualified internal candidates for job openings. I made the suggestion that maybe it was our degree requirements that were cutting down on our pool. It used to be that clerks became administrators, adminsitrators became assistant managers, assistant managers became managers and so on. When we instituted the degree requirement, we basically made the decision that it was OK to hire someone as an admin or assistant manager with little to no experience as long as they had a degree versus someone who has been with the company for 10 years and is ready to take the next step.
I have a university education, from a top 40 school. It has opened doors and has helped me do well in my career, it was a good path for me to take. However, I am also a realist and since I work in transportation I have become very familiar with how needed skilled professions are and am continually frustrated that people are not encouraged to explore those options.
The other piece that really burns me is that the academic elitism has started leaching out into the private sector in the form of hiring criteria. How many "entry level" jobs paying $30k don't require a college degree these days? These are jobs working in a call center or as an office clerk. I swear modern Human Resources decision making came about when everyone who has a useless degree sat down and said, well let's become HR people and then change the requirements to make sure everyone needs an equally useless degree to get a job.
I worked at a rather large company in my past where virtually the entire executive level management was composed of people who were essentially self made. It was rare to see a degree on the wall. They started at the bottom and worked their way up. They also began to require college degrees for essentially entry level jobs and instituted a "glass ceiling" that people could not pass without a degree, no matter how qualified. I was rather high up in the company (director level) and partook in a lot of meetings. One thing that came up often was the lack of qualified internal candidates for job openings. I made the suggestion that maybe it was our degree requirements that were cutting down on our pool. It used to be that clerks became administrators, adminsitrators became assistant managers, assistant managers became managers and so on. When we instituted the degree requirement, we basically made the decision that it was OK to hire someone as an admin or assistant manager with little to no experience as long as they had a degree versus someone who has been with the company for 10 years and is ready to take the next step.
The other piece that really burns me is that the academic elitism has started leaching out into the private sector in the form of hiring criteria. How many "entry level" jobs paying $30k don't require a college degree these days? These are jobs working in a call center or as an office clerk.
I couldn't agree more there, too. I've had my share of white collar jobs, and most of them could be done by a monkey . . . especially when you look at what a lot of employees are actually doing on the job. To require a degree for that kind of work just seemed absurd to me.
I couldn't agree more there, too. I've had my share of white collar jobs, and most of them could be done by a monkey . . . especially when you look at what a lot of employees are actually doing on the job. To require a degree for that kind of work just seemed absurd to me.
I agree, but such is the effect when we only accept one path as success. We march many people off to college and indulge them in a liberal arts education that gives them no real job skills. We end up with a glut of people with useless degrees in debt to their eyeballs. When the market is competitive and unemployment high like it is today, it is easy to make a distinction at the degree level to weed out applicants.
Currently it is OK to discriminate based on education level. It is OK for a company to tell someone that has 20+ years experience in their field that they aren't qualified for the job as they lack a college degree. While the kid who just walked in the door and has a philosophy or english degree from an average state school is magically qualified, despite lacking any real experience or skills.
Not every employer is like this, but they are slowly all heading in this direction. Based on my experience and people I have managed and hired, the average college grad with a liberal arts degree is no more prepared for a career in business than a person right out of high school. However, "modern HR" is slowly stripping away the ability of a hiring manager to look at merit and potential and forcing people to hire based on verifiable criteria like a degree, even if it has no relevance to the job.
I have a university education, from a top 40 school. It has opened doors and has helped me do well in my career, it was a good path for me to take. However, I am also a realist and since I work in transportation I have become very familiar with how needed skilled professions are and am continually frustrated that people are not encouraged to explore those options.
The other piece that really burns me is that the academic elitism has started leaching out into the private sector in the form of hiring criteria. How many "entry level" jobs paying $30k don't require a college degree these days? These are jobs working in a call center or as an office clerk. I swear modern Human Resources decision making came about when everyone who has a useless degree sat down and said, well let's become HR people and then change the requirements to make sure everyone needs an equally useless degree to get a job.
I worked at a rather large company in my past where virtually the entire executive level management was composed of people who were essentially self made. It was rare to see a degree on the wall. They started at the bottom and worked their way up. They also began to require college degrees for essentially entry level jobs and instituted a "glass ceiling" that people could not pass without a degree, no matter how qualified. I was rather high up in the company (director level) and partook in a lot of meetings. One thing that came up often was the lack of qualified internal candidates for job openings. I made the suggestion that maybe it was our degree requirements that were cutting down on our pool. It used to be that clerks became administrators, adminsitrators became assistant managers, assistant managers became managers and so on. When we instituted the degree requirement, we basically made the decision that it was OK to hire someone as an admin or assistant manager with little to no experience as long as they had a degree versus someone who has been with the company for 10 years and is ready to take the next step.
That's a darn shame! I'd rather have someone leading who KNOWS the ins and outs of a company and has had lots of experience in his/her profession than just someone with a degree with little/no experience qualifying for a managerial position. This just shows how the US places way too much emphasis on college!
College is great and necessary for some professions (mathematics, sciences, etc.) but not all professions require attending a college or university. The US needs to start placing more emphasis on trade schools and apprenticeships!
I work at retail store where you need a bachelor's degree just to be a supervisor. No specific degree required. And the work doesn't really require a degree either...just good supervising skills is sufficient enough. Our education system is so screwed up.
Not all Suburban schools are great , only half the states disrects are great. The rest are hit and miss. My Disrect is pretty bad....
The "bottom 50 percent" in that silly, biased, advertiser/subscription-driven NJ Monthly Magazine survey are still probably better than many of the top performing districts in a lot of other states.
I've never heard anyone comment that Washington Twp. (either one of them) has bad schools.
The "bottom 50 percent" in that silly, biased, advertiser/subscription-driven NJ Monthly Magazine survey are still probably better than many of the top performing districts in a lot of other states.
I've never heard anyone comment that Washington Twp. (either one of them) has bad schools.
Large class sizes like 20-30 per class , bad teaching , lack of funding.....i went to Private School most of my life anyway....but my brothers haven't.
America needs to stop believing that equality is a universal and that the only acceptable path is one that leads to a college degree. Just look at our various trade industries and you will see the critical need for mechanics, electricians, utility workers, etc. These are generally high skilled and good paying jobs. However, it seems that no one wants to say that little Johnny is going to be a mechanic. They would rather say we are taking out $50k worth of loans so Johnny can be a philosophy major.
I agree 100%. If anything, we have TOO many people today with college degrees. The meaning of having a degree is completely gone. A Masters degree is today what an undergrad degree used to be. We have a workforce of over-educated people who can't find jobs because there aren't enough high-paying "college type" jobs to go around.
I'm in my 20s. Of my group of friends, the most successful of any of us is the guy who got into a training program to be a mechanic with Mercedes-Benz and now works at a dealership.
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Our education system is so screwed up.
