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Old 10-16-2010, 09:38 AM
 
27,654 posts, read 21,554,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBear2Cubs View Post
Well, your post makes me sad, but I can't say I don't know what you are talking about..... I do think there are kinder, gentler areas in which to live where life is easy and stimulating. I am thinking of cities like Denver, Portland, Seattle, Charlotte, Charleston, Atlanta...... People are kinder, life is slower, and although you don't get "the whole NYC thing"---the sampling of art and culture that comes to town is generally more accessible.... It's easier to drive in to the cities to see stuff...and way more affordable. You get tons more house for the $$.....so much so, it would make your head spin.

For anyone who doubts it--I have seen it time and time again. People who leave tri state area and settle down (usually down South) in a place that is slower, more affordable, easier and warmer--and they never want to come back.

Having said that......

There is something to be said about living a life of adrenaline. I find I am more productive and more alert now that I am back this way. My art has taken off since we moved back---and I know it's because I have inspiration everywhere. There is a beauty to the rhythm of life in NJ---you just have to find your note. There is also REFRESHINGLY candid discourse here--people talk. People mean what they say and everyone has sharp eyes. Yes, I get critiqued here more---but if I am honest, I learn a lot more here than I did elsewhere.

Have to say too---I find Americans IN GENERAL are becoming very critical, cynical and verbose. I think that's because we are hurting in a myriad of ways. I am not surprised to experience that so distinctly here in NJ--but I am surprised when I see evidence of it elsewhere too. The tri-state area will ALWAYS take the prize when it comes to "rude/outspoken" people--but the truth is, the trend is spreading.....

Interesting discussion.
I like the bolded, underlined sentence above. Nice turn of phrase.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:05 AM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,262 posts, read 7,673,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perkins Well View Post
If you don't care what people think, then why do your women wear so much freakin makeup and your guys spend so much time on their abs.
Why are outsiders so intrigued by stereotypical Jersey?
NJ doesn't give that crap on TV high ratings, America does.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:12 AM
 
Location: St Paul, MN - NJ's Gold Coast
5,262 posts, read 7,673,351 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angerinthenation View Post
20 years and even when I was a kid, I've encountered mean and angry people who were way older than me as in teenagers and adults that would take their anger out on me or other kids around my age. And I mean not only as words but as in beatdowns. So just imagine having a somebody beat you up, insulting you for no reason and you're 8 years old and they're 16, 25, or 30 years old. There was even some dudes that were 20 plus year olds that thought it would be funny to pay my bro, my then friend and me 5 dollars to beat each other up while they sat there and laughed at us and we were kids. So I find the whole Jersey attitude not hard to believe. This place has some people with anger issues so if I sound hostile to you, blame them.
I'm sorry to here that, but you have too much pity for yourself- This can happen anywhere (NJ ranks 35th in assaults, 50 being the best/1 being the worst). And I for some reason don't believe that was 20 years ago, anyone who hates Jersey that much would of had the will power to leave already.
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Old 10-16-2010, 11:35 AM
 
4,120 posts, read 7,708,021 times
Reputation: 4448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrz77 View Post
I think the only difference between NJ and elsewhere is that we will say and do what we want because we really don't care what other people think. If you go elsewhere, people will tend to keep their comments to themselves and go out of their way for you because they don't want to be looked at as rude, inconsiderate, judgemental, etc.

I look at it as NJ being real and elsewhere being fake.
I was born and lived in NJ for many years. In my career I was able to travel all over the world and through the years I have seen a change in not only NJ but many areas, where as you state, "we really don't care what other people think." Sadly this extends to lack of empathy for others, disrespect for people and bullying, sometimes with dire consequences. It's one think to keep the "Jersey attitude," but it's become a negative for NJ.
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:22 PM
 
74 posts, read 112,493 times
Reputation: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellwood View Post
I have seen a change in not only NJ but many areas, where as you state, "we really don't care what other people think." .
I would agree to what you are saying....it is alarming how bitter we are becoming as a nation.

A quick anecdote with the disclaimer that this is MY PERCEPTION and my general impressions....and I could easily have read it wrong. Still, here goes:

So I am bilingual and was very touched by everything I saw re: the Chilean miners. Like everyone else, I had my ear to the TV--checking in here and there as I went about my day. Because I understand Spanish, I watched some of the coverage in Spanish and became VERY impressed with the demeanor and sincerity of the President of Chile. I know NOTHING about his other than what I observed...so take this with a grain of salt. My point is that my impression was resoundingly positive and it was a feel good story at a time when all of us could use inspiration and faith in the human spirit.

Then I turned on cable news.....

BIG MISTAKE. The first thing--literally the first thing--I heard the American announcer say was "Well the President of Chile must be happy--this is really going to help in his reelection." The pundit then starting banding back and forth, comparing him to Bill Clinton because of his charisma (WTF???) etc etc. It reminded me why the only news I should ever watch is the last five minutes of the nightly news with Brian Williams.

I gotta tell you--and maybe I am wrong--but nothing I saw made me doubt that the Chilean president was anything other than sincerely touched and happy and proud. Nothing cynical and certainly he came across significantly differently than Bill Clinton. Yet leave it to my fellow Americans *in the media* to shroud it in a cynical way and to compare a happy proud moment in that nation and reduce it to opportunism.

It made me sad because what I saw in the rescue of those miners reminded me of the America we used to be---idealistic, hard working, positive and successful. What I saw in us was discouraging. To use a metaphor, I felt as though we are more akin to the older, grayer guy holding a cigarette in one hand, a drink in the other, who stands back and critiques a young guy for his muscles and good health. He is bitter and disenchanted and therefore assumes everyone else is as miserable as he is.

Got sick and watched some more coverage the following day--happened to catch Natalie Morales on Access Hollywood. She basically took to task the tabloids (and AH too, it seemed to me) for sensationalizing the story of the miner with the girlfriend and the wife. She said that 1) the story was not even accurate--the spouses had been separated for years and the g/f was his life partner and 2) it bothered her that the focus of this amazing story was the illicit. I actually stood and cheered, which goes to show you how much cough medicine I took that I actually applauded Access Hollywood. :-)

Now you can all laugh at me and tell me I am too naive or whatever, but I think most Americans are at heart, decent. Most people perceived the story of the Chilean miners as inspiration and with pride that our country played a part in that rescue via the equipment and people we supplied. What's garbage is the crap we are getting fed on TV via the media and our politicians who are more intent on winning the war against the other party than actually leading the country. And although I am generally pro business etc, I have to say I don't hold our financial leaders in the greatest esteem either.

Anyway------off my soapbox. I guess as a mother, I just feel the need to speak out because if I don't, then I am just complicit in living in a world where skepticism is the rule of the day.

Last edited by MommaBear2Cubs; 10-16-2010 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 10-16-2010, 02:32 PM
 
4,120 posts, read 7,708,021 times
Reputation: 4448
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBear2Cubs View Post
I would agree to what you are saying....it is alarming how bitter we are becoming as a nation.

So I am bilingual and was very touched by everything I saw re: the Chilean miners. Like everyone else, I had my ear to the TV--checking in here and there as I went about my day. Because I understand Spanish, I watched some of the coverage in Spanish and became VERY impressed with the demeanor and sincerity of the President of Chile. I know NOTHING about his other than what I observed...so take this with a grain of salt. My point is that my impression was resoundingly positive and it was a feel good story at a time when all of us could use inspiration and faith in the human spirit.

Then I turned on cable news..
I was also touched by the entire Chilean miner rescue, including the fact that 12 countries came together with their knowledge and skills, to save these 33 miners. If the world could only unite as one, think of what we could accomplish! And then there is a news media...UGH! I use the MUTE button constantly when watching the news. The media reports the negativity, the "sky is falling," the cancers of the world and can't get the weather report correct. They media pees on everyones parade!
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
17,616 posts, read 14,193,928 times
Reputation: 10120
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellwood View Post
If the world could only unite as one, think of what we could accomplish!
this is like goofy idealistic stuff that kids say. these bleeding hearts love to think that as a group you can do so much if everyone worked together. the reality is that its always the few that do everything. the ones who are better than everyone else. the rest just bring everyone down.
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Old 10-16-2010, 03:51 PM
 
1,646 posts, read 1,270,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sayulita View Post
snooki? Is that you?
:d
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Old 10-16-2010, 04:22 PM
 
27,654 posts, read 21,554,463 times
Reputation: 25300
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBear2Cubs View Post
I would agree to what you are saying....it is alarming how bitter we are becoming as a nation.

A quick anecdote with the disclaimer that this is MY PERCEPTION and my general impressions....and I could easily have read it wrong. Still, here goes:

So I am bilingual and was very touched by everything I saw re: the Chilean miners. Like everyone else, I had my ear to the TV--checking in here and there as I went about my day. Because I understand Spanish, I watched some of the coverage in Spanish and became VERY impressed with the demeanor and sincerity of the President of Chile. I know NOTHING about his other than what I observed...so take this with a grain of salt. My point is that my impression was resoundingly positive and it was a feel good story at a time when all of us could use inspiration and faith in the human spirit.

Then I turned on cable news.....

BIG MISTAKE. The first thing--literally the first thing--I heard the American announcer say was "Well the President of Chile must be happy--this is really going to help in his reelection." The pundit then starting banding back and forth, comparing him to Bill Clinton because of his charisma (WTF???) etc etc. It reminded me why the only news I should ever watch is the last five minutes of the nightly news with Brian Williams.

I gotta tell you--and maybe I am wrong--but nothing I saw made me doubt that the Chilean president was anything other than sincerely touched and happy and proud. Nothing cynical and certainly he came across significantly differently than Bill Clinton. Yet leave it to my fellow Americans *in the media* to shroud it in a cynical way and to compare a happy proud moment in that nation and reduce it to opportunism.

It made me sad because what I saw in the rescue of those miners reminded me of the America we used to be---idealistic, hard working, positive and successful. What I saw in us was discouraging. To use a metaphor, I felt as though we are more akin to the older, grayer guy holding a cigarette in one hand, a drink in the other, who stands back and critiques a young guy for his muscles and good health. He is bitter and disenchanted and therefore assumes everyone else is as miserable as he is.

Got sick and watched some more coverage the following day--happened to catch Natalie Morales on Access Hollywood. She basically took to task the tabloids (and AH too, it seemed to me) for sensationalizing the story of the miner with the girlfriend and the wife. She said that 1) the story was not even accurate--the spouses had been separated for years and the g/f was his life partner and 2) it bothered her that the focus of this amazing story was the illicit. I actually stood and cheered, which goes to show you how much cough medicine I took that I actually applauded Access Hollywood. :-)

Now you can all laugh at me and tell me I am too naive or whatever, but I think most Americans are at heart, decent. Most people perceived the story of the Chilean miners as inspiration and with pride that our country played a part in that rescue via the equipment and people we supplied. What's garbage is the crap we are getting fed on TV via the media and our politicians who are more intent on winning the war against the other party than actually leading the country. And although I am generally pro business etc, I have to say I don't hold our financial leaders in the greatest esteem either.

Anyway------off my soapbox. I guess as a mother, I just feel the need to speak out because if I don't, then I am just complicit in living in a world where skepticism is the rule of the day.
Especially in the media, as you point out with your examples. Those of us who are past a certain age can remember when the news was more the news--of course media has always had a certain slant, but nowadays the fight for ratings and celebrity in the news overshadows the actual reporting.

Your story of the American announcer reading into the political aspirations of the Chilean president is typical. How many times don't we watch an interview on TV, or a political debate, and then it's followed by an hour or two of somebody telling us that we didn't really hear what we heard, and they are going tell us what the person REALLY said. This mindset so permeates our society now that you even see it on forums such as this one. How many times have any of you posted a thought and someone responds with "So what you are saying is..." and their reading into what you said is not what you meant at all?
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Old 10-17-2010, 11:27 AM
 
1,734 posts, read 2,090,057 times
Reputation: 1900
Quote:
Originally Posted by MommaBear2Cubs View Post
I would agree to what you are saying....it is alarming how bitter we are becoming as a nation.

A quick anecdote with the disclaimer that this is MY PERCEPTION and my general impressions....and I could easily have read it wrong. Still, here goes:

So I am bilingual and was very touched by everything I saw re: the Chilean miners. Like everyone else, I had my ear to the TV--checking in here and there as I went about my day. Because I understand Spanish, I watched some of the coverage in Spanish and became VERY impressed with the demeanor and sincerity of the President of Chile. I know NOTHING about his other than what I observed...so take this with a grain of salt. My point is that my impression was resoundingly positive and it was a feel good story at a time when all of us could use inspiration and faith in the human spirit.

Then I turned on cable news.....

BIG MISTAKE. The first thing--literally the first thing--I heard the American announcer say was "Well the President of Chile must be happy--this is really going to help in his reelection." The pundit then starting banding back and forth, comparing him to Bill Clinton because of his charisma (WTF???) etc etc. It reminded me why the only news I should ever watch is the last five minutes of the nightly news with Brian Williams.

I gotta tell you--and maybe I am wrong--but nothing I saw made me doubt that the Chilean president was anything other than sincerely touched and happy and proud. Nothing cynical and certainly he came across significantly differently than Bill Clinton. Yet leave it to my fellow Americans *in the media* to shroud it in a cynical way and to compare a happy proud moment in that nation and reduce it to opportunism.

It made me sad because what I saw in the rescue of those miners reminded me of the America we used to be---idealistic, hard working, positive and successful. What I saw in us was discouraging. To use a metaphor, I felt as though we are more akin to the older, grayer guy holding a cigarette in one hand, a drink in the other, who stands back and critiques a young guy for his muscles and good health. He is bitter and disenchanted and therefore assumes everyone else is as miserable as he is.

Got sick and watched some more coverage the following day--happened to catch Natalie Morales on Access Hollywood. She basically took to task the tabloids (and AH too, it seemed to me) for sensationalizing the story of the miner with the girlfriend and the wife. She said that 1) the story was not even accurate--the spouses had been separated for years and the g/f was his life partner and 2) it bothered her that the focus of this amazing story was the illicit. I actually stood and cheered, which goes to show you how much cough medicine I took that I actually applauded Access Hollywood. :-)

Now you can all laugh at me and tell me I am too naive or whatever, but I think most Americans are at heart, decent. Most people perceived the story of the Chilean miners as inspiration and with pride that our country played a part in that rescue via the equipment and people we supplied. What's garbage is the crap we are getting fed on TV via the media and our politicians who are more intent on winning the war against the other party than actually leading the country. And although I am generally pro business etc, I have to say I don't hold our financial leaders in the greatest esteem either.

Anyway------off my soapbox. I guess as a mother, I just feel the need to speak out because if I don't, then I am just complicit in living in a world where skepticism is the rule of the day.

I think, if anything, what you're seeing is a much more realistic assesment of humanity than what has existed in the past. Behind all the slogans of "Freedom" and "Liberty" is the reality that America has always been the land of hustle and oppertunism. While this has produced a nation that is rich, innovative and productive, it also encourages a society strained with paranoia, alienation and shysters. Don't get me wrong, I love this country, but it's always been about "Get Mine" since the pilgrims landed, and that's the reality. I think it's this thought that's why America is so hyper-patriotic and sensitive about it's image, becuase we all know the real deal, but don't want to.....
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