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Old 07-09-2007, 10:12 PM
 
13,460 posts, read 14,448,359 times
Reputation: 7636

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2jm3jm4jm5 View Post
I'll take the most corrupt Democrat over the most "clean" republican anyday.
Well, you got what you asked for and look what you have.

A state that so many people (born and raised in NJ) can't escape from fast enough.

Good job.
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Old 07-09-2007, 10:24 PM
 
13,460 posts, read 14,448,359 times
Reputation: 7636
Quote:
Originally Posted by tahiti View Post
Corzine has made changes to state employees and their bennies, pension ,etc. , it's not the free ride it used to be.
Didn't he start backtracking on requiring state employees contributing a paltry amount to their benefits / retirement benefits?

I thought I read that he did in the Star Ledger.

To me and my acquaintances in the private sector, state workers have benefit packages one could only dream of.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. If the money's not there, how can the benefit package exist?
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:36 AM
 
Location: NJ
12,284 posts, read 30,939,609 times
Reputation: 5190
Quote:
Originally Posted by doc1 View Post
Didn't he start backtracking on requiring state employees contributing a paltry amount to their benefits / retirement benefits?

I thought I read that he did in the Star Ledger.

To me and my acquaintances in the private sector, state workers have benefit packages one could only dream of.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter. If the money's not there, how can the benefit package exist?
you're right that it doesn't really matter since whatever I post won't sway you.

you need to compare apples to apples. the state workers DO have a generous benefits packages, but in return they have lower salaries than the private sector, no bonuses, crappy raises and less flexibility (compared to private - of which I am a member of). state workers contribute to their pension, I do not.

if you're so envious of the state worker, why don't you get a job for the state? i looked into it, and the salary for my industry (IT) was WAAY lower than private, even after factoring in vacation/healthcare, etc. It wasn't worth it.

can more be done? sure. but there are steps being taken, but as I've said all along, it doesn't matter. corzine could reduce property taxes by 50% and it wouldn't be enough.
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Old 07-10-2007, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Sneads Ferry NC/Randolph NJ/Cape Coral FL
12,925 posts, read 24,052,828 times
Reputation: 10739
Part of the pension mess is the politicians have been raiding it for decades, the old rob Peter to pay Paul routine...now it's time for the state to anty up & repay ...
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Old 07-10-2007, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 15,936,438 times
Reputation: 8722
I have heard and spoken to lawyers who practice in multiple states. They all say Jersey is the most corrupt.

I think it is hard to work your way up Jersey politics without being corrupted by the time you hit the top. Also, the people who you are working with, all the pressure groups and civil service unions, are all corrupt.

IT has been an exception, offering better salaries than most fields, and those salaries are not what they once were, due to outsourcing and products such as SAP.

Most people working today don't even get pensions. Most civil service workers in my small town get comparable salaries with the people living in the town and on top of that, get health care and pensions, which many dwellers in the town do not get from their jobs.

I can only imagine that state and county employees even fair better.
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Old 07-10-2007, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Toms River, NJ
1,106 posts, read 4,364,540 times
Reputation: 652
Politics in this state stink no matter which side you look at it from. Corruption abounds. Other states manage to fund schools and social programs without inflated property taxes. Trying to fix the problem by tapping into state employee benefits isn't the answer (and you should take a look at starting salaries for state positions - they aren't equal to most private sector jobs). I recently went from 16 years in the private sector to the public sector. I took a 50% pay cut and all I have are the benefits but I now have to pay union dues, I contribute to my pension and my health benefits do not compare to what I had in the private sector. I'm not complaining. I knew what I was doing but the fact is, it's not the poor state worker who is also struggling to pay his mortgage and property taxes that are going to bale us out of this mess.
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Old 07-11-2007, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 15,936,438 times
Reputation: 8722
You sound as though you had one of the great private sector jobs that were left. With all the outsourcing and layoffs and once middle income people out here taking 2 or more jobs to try to maintain their old lifestyles, you were really fortunate.

What I am saying, is that combining benefits and salary, subtracting employee contributions, factoring in hours of actual work and security of employment, public sector workers should not be paid more than similar private sector workers, and certainly not more than the community that they are working in, if they are town, city, or county employees.

I think many well qualified people getting laid off are competing for public sector jobs today for the security these jobs represent, and I really believe, on the whole, the public jobs are now fullly competitive and overall more rewarding, economically than the private.

Real income in the private sector is actually going down, and has been for some time. People, on the whole, are making less with inflation adjustment, than they did in the 1970's. On the other hand, the public sector has unions and regular cost of living increases, so these people are doing better and better, just like the old days in the US.

I think public employees are becoming somewhat of a priviledged class. The taxpayers, who have no continuing medical benefits upon retirement, are footing the bill for full benefits for public employees.

There is something awfully wrong there, it seems to me. It's like a priviledged and protected class in society.
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Old 07-11-2007, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Toms River, NJ
1,106 posts, read 4,364,540 times
Reputation: 652
We are taking this off topic but thinking that public sector employees are a priveleged protected class is really off base. I don't get bonuses and never will as a public sector employee. I don't get disability pay because as a state employee I can not participate so I have to purchase separate disability insurance which is costing me 3x as much as the tax I used to pay as a private sector employee. If I want to go to the employee holiday party I shell out $75. There is no "company sponsored" anything. There will never be stock options. I could go on. My point is, working in the public sector is different. It's not better, not worse - simply different. You are right, supposedly I will get health care when I retire but that's 26 years aways so we'll see - oh yeah, and I'm a tax payer so besides all of those contributions I make I also pay 7% sales tax, property tax and income tax so I have and continue to pay for state workers. Also, no job is guaranteed - state or otherwise. Changes in budgets, changes in administrations etc. mean that no one is safe. I think government workers are seen as some sort of enemy. Yes, there are those people that we have all dealt with that have attitudes on the phone or in the clerks office. We may not always get the service we want but I've gotten the same rude service from bank employees, cable employees, telephone company employees, airline employees - I think you get it. Most of us, private and public sector employees work hard for our money and try to do the best that we can. But let's take this back to the topic, perhaps if our state government weren't so corrupt we would all be able to save a little bit more because we could take home more. Maybe Michael Moore has the right idea and we should all have equal health care paid by the government - but don't be angry at the state worker for getting something you don't have on the other hand I wont be angry at private sector employees for getting what I no longer have.
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Old 07-11-2007, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Earth Wanderer, longing for the stars.
12,411 posts, read 15,936,438 times
Reputation: 8722
Ok, I see your point.
Yeah, I guess there is jealousy involved here.
We should all have it good, rather than try to take away from others having it better than ourselves.
Yep, I agree with Mr. Moore. It's about time our government stopped lagging behind the rest of the industrialized world.
I think the waste in Jersey is just so imbedded, that it would take many governors, bit by bit, dedicated to overhauling the system, to accomplish anything worthwhile.
Maybe there should be an agency which oversees state waste, ongoing through administrations.
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Old 07-12-2007, 09:50 AM
 
56 posts, read 224,144 times
Reputation: 21
He claims he will not use email anymore (I read this in the newspaper today) because of the OPRA requests brewing demanding he release all of his official email. He is really losing any respect I ever had for him. I don't believe him anyway. Who can live without email. He thinks he is still chairman of the Board and King of the World, instead of the Governor of NJ and answerable to the people for his actions (and email). I'm sorry I voted for him. I won't next time.
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