Worst towns in NJ (Camden, Millville: inspection, property tax, fence)

[Georgia]

Originally Posted by SickofNY/NJ

You forgot JC NJ has turned to garbage. We have the privilige of being conjested here and paying for all the welfare programs that are attracting more and more filth to NJ. There is really no reason to even live here. I am currently looking to move out of this entire area. I am not gonna follow the herds to the south. I'm a full blooded yankee. Just cant do it. So I am stuck here till I figure this mess out.

Good for you for not following the "Going South" line.

I just love it when folks from Jersey and NY talk about heading down to the Southern Utopia, Yes the lovely south, in reality its about as lovely as a mud fence ugly woman after a 12 pack

Take it from this Southern guy. I lived in NJ for 10 years and consider it my adopted home town. Yep! nothing worse than Jersey property tax and car insurance. The cure there is get rid of the teachers union and your property taxes will drop by two thirds and the teachers instead of the union thugs may get a raise to top it off.

Ok, take away the bad in Jersey. Let's talk good.
The Shore
The Water Gap
The Food, nuttin beats the food!!!
Pick your teams
The Blessed Eagles
Giants
Jets
6'ers
Flyers
Devils
Islanders
Nets
Knicks
Skanks
Met's
Phillys
all the minor leagues
God almighty I could just go on!

So, you want to move to the South with the rest of the fools.
Let me describe it to you in words you will find local if you move here, simply put, No Joisey speak
"Don't matter how much you try to polish a turd, it's still a turd"

You see what Jersey has, now lets try the south
Ok, warmer weather and more shoreline.
Bad football
Bad baseball
Bad Hockey, well the minor league Gladiators are ok.
The food, well if you like fried this, fried that, and tea sweet enough to rot your teeth out then ok.
Real Estate is cheaper, yeah! but you better get a full line inspection since most of the homes are built by illegal aliens "The Souths new slavery" at a buck an hour that don't know the difference between a 2x4 and a nail.
Traffic. Well Atlanta and Miami can make the BQE, the Parkway, and turnpike look like a walk in the park.
How about the train. That's easy just get on, pray, and keep your back to the wall. Leave your valuables at home.
Crime. Well Atlanta just overtook Camden as the most dangerous city limit area with a population of less than 500,000.
Atlanta is #1 in bank robberies, assaults, theft, forgery, and gaining ground on car jackings in America.

Sure come on down. Will be glad to say sorry Dorthy, your not in New Jersey anymore!


Taxes and liberals be damned, each day I work to get back to Jersey by transfer. Maybe soon, see I along with the majority of others looking for transfers must have a relo program, well since nobody here can sell their homes, well, maybe after 2 years on the market.

What was it Mick Jagger sang about NYC, "bite the big apple" but don't mind the maggots.

Come on down, to crime central we have more than maggots to offer. It's an entire cesspool. A very dry and dirty cesspool.

Jersey my Jersey. I'll take it anyday.

[paladinblu]

Newark wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the rich kids form Bergen,upper Essex & Morris counties coming to Newark to buy their drugs. Can't you people watch your kids a little better.

[JERSEY MAN]

Originally Posted by paladinblu

Newark wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the rich kids form Bergen,upper Essex & Morris counties coming to Newark to buy their drugs. Can't you people watch your kids a little better.

Well the rich kids leave after they buy the drugs, they don't join the bloods and crips and shoot up the town and kill each other. By your statement most crime in Newark is because Johnny borrowed moms BMW and bought a bag of heroin in Newark. They go there because Newark is infested with drugs. And yes they are wrong to do that but I don't think Newark will be Utopia if Johnny took moms BMW to Jersey City to buy his drugs.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by ucb91

I cant belive that some one will actualy ask this question the worst towns in nj . well just to tell all of you i am actualy moving in to newark from new rochelle because newark is undergoing a revolution and i want to ba a part of it. watch give newark 5 years and it will move to your best towns list you will see

I'm not so sure that the city will magically revolutionize itself in just a brief five-year timespan, but I agree that instead of sitting around and lamenting how awful so many of NJ's urbanized areas are, folks should band together and take back their streets! I myself am moving from an upscale suburb to a rather drug-infested neighborhood in the city of Scranton, PA after college to raise my family because I see nothing but potential in it. Likewise, I know that someday Newark, Paterson, Elizabeth, and even Camden will turn themselves around. As Center City Philadelphia continues to become nearly as expensive as Manhattan, you'll start seeing young professionals, artists, empty-nesters, and others who want to live within walking distance to Center City forging a renaissance near Downtown Camden and its waterfront that will eventually spread gentrification throughout the entire city. As Hoboken and Jersey City continue to become cost-prohibitive in the coming years, interest will eventually spread into Newark, Irvington, Paterson, Elizabeth, etc. This will by no means occur overnight, but I can definitely see the quality-of-life in these cities improving greatly in another 10-20 years. For some of you that's too long to wait, but for 21-year-old like myself, we'll be glad that we were willing to invest in so-called "cess pools" like this when real estate was still affordable and then laugh all the way to the bank when we're 50 and have properties in our portfolio that are now in rebounding middle-class cities.

SilkCity sounds like the type of person I could get along with. I happen to feel as if too many in NJ have been soured to every urbanized area in this nation based upon their negative experiences with Camden, Newark, etc. This is why instead of moving to relatively safe, affordable, historic, and stable PA cities like Bethlehem, Scranton, etc. they're downing all of our trees in the Poconos and Lehigh Valley for McMansions. It's almost as if people in NJ have been traumatized by the thought of living anywhere but in the suburbs, and that's rather sad since SO MANY American cities have so much to offer.

At what point will people in NJ stop running away from their problems and instead brain storm to develop strategies to revive their struggling cities? After all, your state is an intellectual mecca filled with all sorts of brilliant eggheads who work in NYC and Philadelphia. I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks these cities are capable of renaissance. I fully understand that nobody in their right minds with children would want to move to Newark, Camde, etc. just to "prove a point," but for young professionals with nothing to lose, what's the harm? After all, the vast majority of murders in NJ are lowlife druggie/gang scumbags targeting other lowlife druggie/gang scumbags; you don't hear much about middle-class and upper-middle-class residents getting gunned down at random just for the hell of it.

I'm happy to hear that there are like-minded folks like ucb91 and SilkCity who want to help these cities recover. NJ is running out of developable land, folks. You can't simply "run away" for much longer. After all, by my estimation EVERY NJ resident lives within a half-hour's drive of one of the towns/cities mentioned in this thread, and crime knows no boundaries once it spreads itself into your own community. Moving to PA and then killing yourself with a 3-hour round-trip commute is NOT a good option for families, as we've been seeing rising gang problems here in the Poconos associated with ex-NJ parents leaving their teenagers unsupervised all day while they commute back to NYC for work. What's left? At some point you just have to throw your hands in the air, say "I'm not going to be bossed around anymore", and demand change for these once great cities. I can rattle off dozens of "Rust Belt Rebounders." I'm sure NJ is quite capable of seeing them as well.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by paladinblu

Newark wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't for the rich kids form Bergen,upper Essex & Morris counties coming to Newark to buy their drugs. Can't you people watch your kids a little better.

I hate to burst your bubble, but a large portion of Eastern PA's drug supply comes from NJ (as well as NYC and Philly to be fair). A lot of dealers are beginning to flood into the Lehigh Valley, Poconos, and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre because they realize that we are an untapped market for their "enterprises." Small-town cops here are ill-equipped to deal with urban issues, and residents themselves aren't vigilant. Couple this with folks who have money to burn to pay several times the price for these drugs as the suppliers purchased them for, and VOILA, we have ourselves an epidemic. Drugs are everywhere. Even Scranton's "Beverly Hills"-style suburb of Clarks Summit, PA had a major drug bust several years ago at their high school---rich teenagers of doctors, politicians, and lawyers were shelling out big bucks for drugs and then dealing them in school.

It doesn't take much to develop an entrepreneurial spirit, and the longer you can go while evading law enforcement, the bolder you naturally become, driven by a natural quest to maximize your profits. I hate to say this, but if you folks want to clean up your cities in NJ, that will probably happen most easily if you convince your lowlives to move into PA, enticed by the higher profit margins for their products. After all NYC and Philly dumped their problems onto you. You can dump your problems onto Eastern PA. In turn, Eastern PA can dump its problems on Upstate NY and Western PA. It's the circle of life.

[SteelCityRising]

Wow! Georgia, your honest, heartfelt, courageous vent session deserves a rep boost from yours truly. Bravo! Whenever I vent like that I get my reputation attacked and have people demanding my banishment. I find the "water struggle" currently occurring down South to be very humorous actually. FL, GA, and AL are fighting one another over water. Now SC is contemplating taking measures to restrict GA from stealing their water as well. Soon you'll see NC taking similar pre-emptive actions against SC. All the while ignorant folks continue to water their lawns, wash their cars, take long showers, etc. That huge rain storm you folks in Atlanta just had only increased your water supply by five days. I can't believe nobody realizes that at some point population growth will simply outpace the ability for reservoirs to replenish themselves---dry spell or no dry spell. With 5.1 million residents and growing daily, Greater Atlantans will be drawing more and more water from Lake Lanier, Lake Allatoona, etc. than ever before, even as average annual rainfall remains constant. When you have a finite resource (potable water) along with rising demand associated with explosive growth and unchecked sprawl, this is what happens. Even if rainfall this year had been in the "average" range, we still would see maximum lake levels LOWER than they ever were in years past due to this increased strain. At some point the Southeast sprawl belt will be running out of water completely, which is why PA, NY, NJ, MD, etc. have to take measures NOW to prevent them from using OUR water.

Until they wake up and realize that haphazard low-density growth for miles and miles is limiting the amount of permeable soil available, I'll have no sympathy for folks in the Southeast. Watershed land that once fed potable water sources being paved over for Wal-Marts and McMansions can NOT be a good thing for sure; I'm tired of hearing about this drought as if we're supposed to feel "sorry" that years of poor land usage policies were probably HALF to blame for this dire situation (along with the lack of rainfall this year).

[cyntmac]

Many ex-New Jerseyans live in cities. I have met them all over the U.S. Maybe you are talking about people with kids?

Drugs have always been a problem on a national level. Users live everywhere and so do sellers. Whole drug neighborhoods may not be everywhere but have you ever taken the time to learn about your country's drug laws and policies? It sure doesn't sound like it. Everyone is not going to leave Newark to move to your area and open a crack house. Newark will always have an element. The history of your area is probably very different than Newarks. If you lived in NJ you would not be taking back Newark believe me. You have a lot to learn as evidenced by the fact that you are even making a comparison between your "project" and the reality of a place like Newark.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by cyntmac

Many ex-New Jerseyans live in cities. I have met them all over the U.S. Maybe you are talking about people with kids?

Drugs have always been a problem on a national level. Users live everywhere and so do sellers. Whole drug neighborhoods may not be everywhere but have you ever taken the time to learn about your country's drug laws and policies? It sure doesn't sound like it. Everyone is not going to leave Newark to move to your area and open a crack house. Newark will always have an element. The history of your area is probably very different than Newarks. If you lived in NJ you would not be taking back Newark believe me. You have a lot to learn as evidenced by the fact that you are even making a comparison between your "project" and the reality of a place like Newark.

I'm simply going by my own personal experiences in my area where transplants don't even consider the cities, even though they are by and large much safer than the areas from which they've fled. I track local property transfers daily online, and several folks per day are moving to Lackawanna and Luzerne Counties in PA from NY/NJ/SEPA, and by and large 99.9% of them are buying homes/lots in the suburbs. The same could be said for the Lehigh Valley, which is falling victim to transplant-fueled urban sprawl, even though Bethlehem, PA is one of the most adorable medium-sized cities overall I've ever had the pleasure of doing a photo tour of. I even like it better than Scranton, which is saying a lot, since those who know me know that I rarely put down the pom-poms to get folks interested in revitalizing it.

Yes, I am admittedly naive, idealistic, and wear rose-colored glasses, even on cloudy days. However, I'd rather be an optimist about the FUTURE of Newark, Paterson, Elizabeth, etc. as opposed to being a pessimist about the PRESENT conditions of these cities. You'll always have a certain segment of the population that chooses to be negative. Even ego-inflated cities like Boulder, Ithaca, Charlottesville, Minneapolis, etc. have their fair share of detractors who are miserable living there. Scranton's proportion is now roughly 50/50 in terms of a griper to reviver ratio. That seems to be more along the lines of 10/90 in places like Boulder and Ithaca and the opposite---90/10 in places like Newark, Paterson, etc. Image and attitude mean EVERYTHING to a city. People by and large in this country are sheep. They want to flock to areas that everyone else is hyping up and are relocating to so they can be part of a bandwagon (hence what we're seeing on this forum with NC). If people in a city are doing nothing but slamming it into the ground, NOBODY in their right mind will ponder moving there or investing there. If people in a city are hopeful, resilient, and beaming with civic pride, then their chances of luring in new external economic growth are much, much better. Look at it this way---would you rather move to a city that everyone dubbed a "dump" or a "paradise?" You'd opt for the latter, as would 99.9% of folks. Improve the image and attitudes of residents in these cities---give them something to latch onto in terms of hope---and they'll improve much more quickly. Buffalo continues to languish because people in that city are miserable malcontents who scream "Buffalo sucks" from the highest mountain tops. Cities like Bethlehem, Pittsburgh, and Scranton are just starting to round a corner because enough of the pro-city types are overpowering the pessimists.

No, attitude change alone won't rebuild NJ's cities. However, one can't deny the positive correlation that exists between cities with high attitudes and high success rates and cities with poor attitudes and poor results.

[cyntmac]

I think that the problems in Newark and places like it run very deep and I am not one to blame it squarely on the residents or their parenting skills. To me that is just more ignorance. Many people that I grew up with in NJ live in cities. It is not unusual in the least. People who already have families are not likely to do that for many reasons.

I have spent the majority of my adult life in big cities and I do not prefer suburbs but I try not to bash. If someone else wants to do that I understand but don't let it cloud your thinking to the point where fantasy becomes reality. Suburbs are frequently created with little regard for the future drain on resources and yes that does not bode well for the future.

If you would invest in the time it takes to learn about the history of the cities in this country, the drug laws, the so called "war on drugs", policies, etc.- I would think you would come away with a different perspective. Dreaming is not the answer for the people of Newark and places like it. There have always been activists there but to think that they are waiting for you with open arms is just, well -really really naive.

If someone really wants to invest in Jersey City, Newark, Trenton, etc- I would say go for it but only if you want it for the long term. What has been happening up to this point in history is that people stay until the point in time when they have families and then tend to jump ship. This is one of the reasons you see the worst parts of town getting worse and many city services and institutions (like schools) just stagnating.

[TheEmissary]

Originally Posted by ScrantonWilkesBarre

I'm simply going by my own personal experiences in my area where transplants don't even consider the cities, even though they are by and large much safer than the areas from which they've fled. I track local property transfers daily online, and several folks per day are moving to Lackawanna and Luzerne Counties in PA from NY/NJ/SEPA, and by and large 99.9% of them are buying homes/lots in the suburbs. The same could be said for the Lehigh Valley, which is falling victim to transplant-fueled urban sprawl, even though Bethlehem, PA is one of the most adorable medium-sized cities overall I've ever had the pleasure of doing a photo tour of. I even like it better than Scranton, which is saying a lot, since those who know me know that I rarely put down the pom-poms to get folks interested in revitalizing it.

Yes, I am admittedly naive, idealistic, and wear rose-colored glasses, even on cloudy days. However, I'd rather be an optimist about the FUTURE of Newark, Paterson, Elizabeth, etc. as opposed to being a pessimist about the PRESENT conditions of these cities. You'll always have a certain segment of the population that chooses to be negative. Even ego-inflated cities like Boulder, Ithaca, Charlottesville, Minneapolis, etc. have their fair share of detractors who are miserable living there. Scranton's proportion is now roughly 50/50 in terms of a griper to reviver ratio. That seems to be more along the lines of 10/90 in places like Boulder and Ithaca and the opposite---90/10 in places like Newark, Paterson, etc. Image and attitude mean EVERYTHING to a city. People by and large in this country are sheep. They want to flock to areas that everyone else is hyping up and are relocating to so they can be part of a bandwagon (hence what we're seeing on this forum with NC). If people in a city are doing nothing but slamming it into the ground, NOBODY in their right mind will ponder moving there or investing there. If people in a city are hopeful, resilient, and beaming with civic pride, then their chances of luring in new external economic growth are much, much better. Look at it this way---would you rather move to a city that everyone dubbed a "dump" or a "paradise?" You'd opt for the latter, as would 99.9% of folks. Improve the image and attitudes of residents in these cities---give them something to latch onto in terms of hope---and they'll improve much more quickly. Buffalo continues to languish because people in that city are miserable malcontents who scream "Buffalo sucks" from the highest mountain tops. Cities like Bethlehem, Pittsburgh, and Scranton are just starting to round a corner because enough of the pro-city types are overpowering the pessimists.

No, attitude change alone won't rebuild NJ's cities. However, one can't deny the positive correlation that exists between cities with high attitudes and high success rates and cities with poor attitudes and poor results.

SWB - I agree with you that it's a real shame that older cities can't somehow be "re-gentrified" in some ways. The problem is, that most peoples attitudes would have to go through a very big adjustment for this to happen. No one wants to fix the problems in these cities. It's like repairing an old appliance - "why fix it when you can get a new one almost cheaper"! I moved from Paterson NJ to Monroe NC two years ago, after I retired, because I realized that my retirement money would go a lot farther and I had lived in the same house for 53 years.
My 3 bedroom 1 bath Cape Cod is up for sale. I just wonder who will end up buying it. It certainly won't be a young couple from Wayne recently married, who are looking for their first home. The reason would be that the school system is a disaster. They are not going to move to a town like Paterson if they have to come up with tuition for say, Catholic school for their 3 future kids. One of the biggest reasons for moving are school systems - you can see on any of these forums that the number one concern is getting children into a "good" school. Another example - an older couple wishing to downsize from their 5 bedroom home in Ridgewood are not going to be buying my house anytime soon. I can just imagine their children saying to them, "You're moving to Paterson? - Mom-Dad, are you insane?" They'll end up moving to a condo in Ft Lee or Mahwah or someplace down the shore - or even out of state to be near their children who can't afford to live the same lifestyle that their parents had in NJ.

Who is going to buy my house? They'll probably be Hispanic and with the current tough mortgage situation, will barely be able to afford my little Cape Cod ($300K). Their children will go to the same grammar school I went to (It was 100% white when I went to it). When I was a kid, the only black people I saw, were the guys who rode on the garbage trucks - hard to believe when I tell people from the suburbs of NJ.

The problem with many of these cities is that they are so small - in square miles. Paterson is 8.6 square miles and Newark is about 23 square miles - tiny, considering their populations. Charlotte by me, is 285 sq miles with 600,000 people. It reminds me of Tom Wicker's line about LA - "50 suburbs in search of a city". It has a few big bank buildings in the downtown and luxury condos 30 stories tall. Monroe, the town I live in is 28 sq mi and has about 30,000 residents. NJ and PA have all those little towns with their separate school systems and police departments that endlessly drive up the taxes, while down here the schools operate on the county level. It saves a lot of money! Also down here there is a tendency to consolidate a county into the large city. Charlotte one day will probably absorb the six surrounding little towns into it and all of Mecklenberg county will be the city of Charlotte. Can you imagine the screams of all the residents of Passaic, Lackawanna and Essex counties, if Paterson, Scranton and Newark took over their respective counties? But you'd only need one police chief and school superindendent for each of them. That alone would save millions. But the biggest screams would come from the suburbs when they find out that little Taneesha from Newark will be going to school with little Sally from Short Hills, because it's one big school system-and no, it wouldn't be Short Hills anymore but the Short Hills section of Newark!

In case you're thinking I was one of those examples of "white flight", when I came down here to look at houses, there were two developments that had the same builder. One of the developments was in Waxhaw, a little town that is like a NJ suburb and the other was in Monroe - kind of like, say, Hackensack. You could have the same exact house in either development. I chose Monroe because it was more like home or at least the way I wanted an idealized version of Paterson to be. I have more black and hispanic neighbors than I had there, but the difference in attitudes on their part stands out in stark contrast to the attitudes my Paterson neighbors. I feel like I'm a character in the cast of a combination of the Cosby Family and the George Lopez show. My neighbors are terrific people! I don't regret not living by the stereotype young blond 30 something with the little blond kid and the Lexus RX 350 in Waxhaw.

SWB - I read your posts about the neighbors parking on your lawn and realized I was somewhere in-between the views of you and your father.
One of the reasons I left, was that the people who lived across the street from me, decided to "illegally" build bedrooms in their basement and the number of cars on the street and the ones parked in front of my house, really started to get on my nerves! The city of Paterson is very lax in enforcing housing codes - a definite quality of life issue. I don't know if cities like the ones you and I grew up in can be turned around, but without your kind of youthful optimism, it will never happen. I've read alot of your posts on both the NJ and NEPA forums and I hope one day, I'll read you're running for Mayor of Scranton or Governor of PA. Out with the old and in with the new!