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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:22 PM
 
277 posts, read 363,067 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
Because humans have occupied these areas. Just as the bears did before they lived there. Species migration and resource utilization is natural and normal.
Try because yuppies want to build McMansions "out in the country" Do us all a favor-stay in the suburbs and stop making our farmland and woodlands into sprawl. Over the years I've lost more hunting land to subdivisions than to anti-hunters.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
2,647 posts, read 2,291,579 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by chennai01 View Post
I do support controlled hunting of deer and other game species. I see no reason why bear hunting is necessary to prevent habitat from development.
I do not recognize your right to impose your will on others who want to hunt bears. If YOU do not want to hunt bears, then don't hunt them. Others DO want to hunt bears, and their wishes and rationales are just as valid as yours.

Bears have become pests in our population centers. It was only dumb luck that the "troublesome cute little bear cub" that crashed through the glass door at that school did not encounter a 9 year old girl standing on the other side. We cannot allow that to happen. Bears and population centers do not mix. The bear hunting season should be 365 days per year until they are no longer encroaching on suburban areas.

I am not interested in conserving bear populations if it means humans are at risk. We come first.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:30 PM
 
74 posts, read 67,008 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by deere110 View Post
People see bears as cute and cuddly, which is only natural-who didn't have a favorite teddy bear growing up? The reality of this line of thinking of course, is that it's silly. Bears are beautiful animals and are wondrous to observe in their natural habitat, but so are deer.



The bear season is six days long. So long as you're not in the woods from about December 1st to December 7th I don't see how bear hunting would affect you in any way. .
The issue isn't the time the hunt takes place. I'm happy to rearrange my outdoor schedule to accomodate various hunting seasons. My issue is that 20% plus of the bear population is taken and the impacts of that on bear population age structure (more young bears, less mature experienced bears) and the resulting social chaos by mass removal of bears with defended territories.

In addition, it makes no sense to remove one of the natural deer predators given the massive overpopulation of deer we have.



Quote:
Originally Posted by deere110 View Post
As I said before, if it all came down to economic benefit and nothing else, we would all advocate paving everything and putting up shopping malls. .
No, New Jersey residents have repeatedly supported Green Acres funding as well as Highland Act to conserve large areas of habitat for wildlife. The issue is how within those areas will wildlife be managed? This is a legitimate debate and IMHO current policy disproprotionately represents carnivore hunters (less than 1% of New Jersey population).


Quote:
Originally Posted by deere110 View Post
So who is going to pay for the "garbage police" who are supposed to go around and make sure that people are storing garbage properly/cite those who are not? Who's going to pay for the "aversive conditioning?" Who's going to pay for the "lethal removal of problem animals?" You? I didn't think so.
Local police. Time better spent than sitting in speed traps. Shouldn't be a big deal with patrols twice a week in at risk areas.

Local police and Fish and Game can. Fish and Game used to have a non-lethal aversive conditioning program, but it was eliminated (as far as I know it wasn't applied particularly well). Fish and Game and/or private group can train local police in hot spots to make it work.

The reality is if you don't control the garbage, bears will still come into residential areas.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:33 PM
 
277 posts, read 363,067 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
The bear hunting season should be 365 days per year until they are no longer encroaching on suburban areas.
Six days is enough-we harvested 469 bears last year and 592 in 2010.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
I am not interested in conserving bear populations if it means humans are at risk. We come first.
You are a silly person. Do you pull up your skirt and scream when you see a mouse on the floor? Seriously. I am hunter. I support the bear hunt. You are not helping. Please stop posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chennai01 View Post
The issue isn't the time the hunt takes place. I'm happy to rearrange my outdoor schedule to accomodate various hunting seasons. My issue is that 20% plus of the bear population is taken and the impacts of that on bear population age structure (more young bears, less mature experienced bears) and the resulting social chaos by mass removal of bears with defended territories.
So the fact that you want to see "mature experienced bears" trumps all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chennai01 View Post
In addition, it makes no sense to remove one of the natural deer predators given the massive overpopulation of deer we have.
We actually manage our deer herd quite well in NJ-through hunting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chennai01 View Post
Local police. Time better spent than sitting in speed traps. Shouldn't be a big deal with patrols twice a week in at risk areas.
You have GOT to be kidding me. And what about the towns with no local police? State Trooper are supposed to ride around looking for unsecured trash cans!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chennai01 View Post
Local police and Fish and Game can. Fish and Game used to have a non-lethal aversive conditioning program, but it was eliminated (as far as I know it wasn't applied particularly well). Fish and Game and/or private group can train local police in hot spots to make it work.
Oh right, the same NJF&W that had to cut it's Conservation Officers to the bone because of state budget cuts so that there are literally a handful to patrol millions of acres statewide. Between the naturephobic realtor and the ursophile who thinks that local police should be chasing garbage scofflaws this thread has really gone off the rails...
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:45 PM
 
74 posts, read 67,008 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
I do not recognize your right to impose your will on others who want to hunt bears. If YOU do not want to hunt bears, then don't hunt them. Others DO want to hunt bears, and their wishes and rationales are just as valid as yours.

Bears have become pests in our population centers. It was only dumb luck that the "troublesome cute little bear cub" that crashed through the glass door at that school did not encounter a 9 year old girl standing on the other side. We cannot allow that to happen. Bears and population centers do not mix. The bear hunting season should be 365 days per year until they are no longer encroaching on suburban areas.

I am not interested in conserving bear populations if it means humans are at risk. We come first.
And the development you encourage as realtor increases a person' risk of dieing 1000s more times than the bear population represents. Maybe you should quit your job and "allow that to happen?"

Again, the bear crashed into the school in an area in Sussex County where people improperly secure garbage. This is the cause of the problem. Additionally, hunting promotes more young bears like this which wander further and cause problems.

Therefore, your actions (willfully violating New Jersey garbage laws, promoting an increase in amount of younger bears, increasing development close to bear habitat) all contribute to incidents such as these.

BTW...a young custodian chased the bear out a window.

We are at risk of everything. Perhaps, we should kill every animal on earth since all pose some sort of risk. One in a million black bears kills someone which would mean one death every 333 years. How many additional death will result from increased hunter accidents from "365 day hunts"? How many additional fatal deer collisions will result from increased deer population due to higher fawn recuruitment? How many more people will be crippled by lyme disease due to higher deer population?

Not so simple is it? Sorry, Marc, life isn't so black and white.

Bottom line is human wildlife interaction is a fact of life due to population growth and suburban sprawl in the US. We can act intelligently or act with irrational fear.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
2,647 posts, read 2,291,579 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by deere110 View Post
Try because yuppies want to build McMansions "out in the country" Do us all a favor-stay in the suburbs and stop making our farmland and woodlands into sprawl. Over the years I've lost more hunting land to subdivisions than to anti-hunters.
You've LOST hunting land? How? Did someone steal your land? Absurd. Really. The only way you lost land to hunt on is if you were tresspassing on someone else's land in the first place.

Frankly I am not interested in your hunting land. Move to Montana. Honestly. If someone has the money to buy land and build a house, it is not your right to get in his way. If you want to preserve land to hunt on, then BUY IT. It is called private property rights and is the basis for our civilization.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:48 PM
 
277 posts, read 363,067 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by chennai01 View Post
Not so simple is it? Sorry, Marc, life isn't so black and white.
I'm actually beginning to suspect that the two of you are the same person. "Marc's" arguments FOR bear hunting are about the most idiotic and misguided I've ever heard, which leads me to believe that he must be shilling for the anti-bear hunt folks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
You've LOST hunting land? How? Did someone steal your land? Absurd. Really. The only way you lost land to hunt on is if you were tresspassing on someone else's land in the first place.

Frankly I am not interested in your hunting land. Move to Montana. Honestly. If someone has the money to buy land and build a house, it is not your right to get in his way. If you want to preserve land to hunt on, then BUY IT. It is called private property rights and is the basis for our civilization.
Ok, scratch that, now I'm entirely certain I don't know who makes less sense-you or your alter-ego. How did LOSE hunting land? Easy-know nothing city slickers like yourself came out to the rural areas of NJ and waved a bunch of money around. I respect private property rights and I don't trespass-I'm just tired of seeing condos going up where there was once open space. Go take a walk and cool off-wait-nevermind-you never know when a rabid woodchuck could pop out of nowhere and attack!
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Unread 05-08-2012, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
2,647 posts, read 2,291,579 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by deere110 View Post
Six days is enough-we harvested 469 bears last year and 592 in 2010.

You are a silly person. Do you pull up your skirt and scream when you see a mouse on the floor? Seriously. I am hunter. I support the bear hunt. You are not helping. Please stop posting.
I do not recognize your right to speak for hunters. You speak only for yourself. And I speak for myself. I do not believe that bears should be allowed to live in human population centers. At all. Any. None. Zero. Therefore, there should be no limit on bear hunting to eradicate misplaced populations within suburban or urban areas of human development.

There is plenty of available sparsely developed land where the bears can roam in freedom and harmony. Those areas are not within 75 miles of the Capital of the World, New York, New York, 10001.

An objective standard can be developed to identify the correct humans per square mile ratio after which all bears should be shot on sight. Below that ratio, the bears can receive legalized protection from hunters and may live in a proper remote habitat.
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Unread 05-08-2012, 02:01 PM
 
277 posts, read 363,067 times
Reputation: 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella View Post
I do not recognize your right to speak for hunters. You speak only for yourself. And I speak for myself. I do not believe that bears should be allowed to live in human population centers. At all. Any. None. Zero. Therefore, there should be no limit on bear hunting to eradicate misplaced populations within suburban or urban areas of human development.

There is plenty of available sparsely developed land where the bears can roam in freedom and harmony. Those areas are not within 75 miles of the Capital of the World, New York, New York, 10001.

An objective standard can be developed to identify the correct humans per square mile ratio after which all bears should be shot on sight. Below that ratio, the bears can receive legalized protection from hunters and may live in a proper remote habitat.
There's no way you're real or that if you were that anyone would use you for a real estate transaction. Furthermore, if you're going to make up a fake person in order to go trolling on a discussion forum, pick a better profile picture for God's sake:



Whoever gave you that haircut should be shot on sight
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Unread 05-08-2012, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
2,647 posts, read 2,291,579 times
Reputation: 2283
Quote:
Originally Posted by deere110 View Post
I'm actually beginning to suspect that the two of you are the same person. "Marc's" arguments FOR bear hunting are about the most idiotic and misguided I've ever heard, which leads me to believe that he must be shilling for the anti-bear hunt folks.



Ok, scratch that, now I'm entirely certain I don't know who makes less sense-you or your alter-ego. How did LOSE hunting land? Easy-know nothing city slickers like yourself came out to the rural areas of NJ and waved a bunch of money around. I respect private property rights and I don't trespass-I'm just tired of seeing condos going up where there was once open space. Go take a walk and cool off-wait-nevermind-you never know when a rabid woodchuck could pop out of nowhere and attack!
We "waved a bunch of money around"? That's all it took for you guys to sell out the Bears and Elysium? Interesting.
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