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Old 02-21-2011, 09:22 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 2,045,281 times
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I think both sides are acting rationally, or in their best interest.

It's rational for the teachers unions to fight any changes that would be to their detriment. Their unions have done a very good job for them, keeping their wages competitive and their benefits higher than what the private sector can now expect.

On the other hand, speaking for NJ, it's also rational for taxpayers to say enough is enough to constant tax increases. Especially when they are watching their home values plummet, dealing with a 10% unemployment rate, layoffs and threats of layoffs, less and smaller or no raises. Add in the fact that many employers are passing on increased benefit costs to their employees, unlike the public sector.

To expect either side to benevolently roll over is just not realistic.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:24 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
11,787 posts, read 8,709,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeymarine View Post
No, not sour grapes at all. I was in the Marines...which has nothing to do with anything. I don't have any cops or firefighters as friends or family. But Cops and Firefighters put their lives at risk to do their jobs....teachers don't. No sour grapes at all, just a 'little' respect for the people who keep us safe.
depends on where they are teaching sometimes! at least cops and firefighters can defend themselves, teachers can't even touch a student, even if the student is attacking them.
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Old 02-21-2011, 09:53 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
11,787 posts, read 8,709,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
But these are paid for by the patient, or else they dont get done. The non insured emergencies usually don't get paid for by anyone. There is a big difference.
my aunt works as the go-between hospitals and patiens who "can't pay" these exact things you speak of. she makes nearly $500,000/yr in the middle of pennsylvania. sorry, not convinced the non-insured emergencies don't get paid when she's raking in that much as her cut. plus, we all pay higher insurance to the hospital because of the customers who truly don't pay. hospital is getting paid.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
17,409 posts, read 13,636,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Captain still waiting on how many bank managers were let go to allow some other person to come in and do the worlk for half pay? All the top dogs are at my banks. I guess the private sector forgot to cut cost? Come on buddy.
what are you asking me for? its funny that you have no point whatsoever but you keep repeating this as if you have some kind of brilliant point. banks dont report to me their managers salaries and how many they lay off or cut in salary due to the economy. but if you feel your banks fees are too high, change banks.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
4,072 posts, read 4,614,903 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
my aunt works as the go-between hospitals and patiens who "can't pay" these exact things you speak of. she makes nearly $500,000/yr in the middle of pennsylvania. sorry, not convinced the non-insured emergencies don't get paid when she's raking in that much as her cut. plus, we all pay higher insurance to the hospital because of the customers who truly don't pay. hospital is getting paid.
As I said, generally, hospital gets paid by the tax payer for the non-insured. I, however, do not. If she is telling you the truth, and that is what she is getting paid, her cut of the healh care dollar is way to big. That money should be used for actual health care instead of middle men and bureaucracy.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:09 AM
 
1,837 posts, read 1,762,565 times
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Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
what are you asking me for? its funny that you have no point whatsoever but you keep repeating this as if you have some kind of brilliant point. banks dont report to me their managers salaries and how many they lay off or cut in salary due to the economy. but if you feel your banks fees are too high, change banks.

Again you said in the "private" world companies cut cost all of the time. My point is would someone come of the street with the proper credentials and be a banks manager for say 1/4 of what the current manager is making? The answer is yes. My question to you is how many banks did that? You just cant say people would teach for less and then pay no mind to the fact that in tough times people would pretty much do any job for less then the going rate. Trust me I know about banking and no manager lost their jobs at least in my neck the woods.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:11 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
11,787 posts, read 8,709,984 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
As I said, generally, hospital gets paid by the tax payer for the non-insured. I, however, do not. If she is telling you the truth, and that is what she is getting paid, her cut of the healh care dollar is way to big. That money should be used for actual health care instead of middle men and bureaucracy.
oh i agree entirely. she's more like my "ex-aunt". she was making in the 300s in the early part of the decade. her take kept getting higher and higher. maybe 500 is overstating it, but i know it's >400k. it's a blip to the hospitals. she helps set up payment plans for people who may not have paid anything otherwise. they pay her for that service.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:13 AM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
17,409 posts, read 13,636,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Again you said in the "private" world companies cut cost all of the time. My point is would someone come of the street with the proper credentials and be a banks manager for say 1/4 of what the current manager is making? The answer is yes. My question to you is how many banks did that? You just cant say people would teach for less and then pay no mind to the fact that in tough times people would pretty much do any job for less then the going rate. Trust me I know about banking and no manager lost their jobs at least in my neck the woods.
im sure some banks cut some fat and probably lowered their starting salaries for some new hired. they may have kept their starting salaries the same and been able to pick up better people than they otherwise would have at that price. they probably put off raises that they may have otherwise given to some people. there are a variety of things that they can do. although, its my understanding that some banks are doing pretty well so i wouldnt expect they would need to make major cutbacks.
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
11,787 posts, read 8,709,984 times
Reputation: 3206
Quote:
Originally Posted by bababua View Post
Again you said in the "private" world companies cut cost all of the time. My point is would someone come of the street with the proper credentials and be a banks manager for say 1/4 of what the current manager is making? The answer is yes. My question to you is how many banks did that? You just cant say people would teach for less and then pay no mind to the fact that in tough times people would pretty much do any job for less then the going rate. Trust me I know about banking and no manager lost their jobs at least in my neck the woods.
it's pointless to go back and forth. it doesn't really matter what happens in the private sector. teachers are teachers. if you want to make teaching a for-profit venture where costs are cut, and you pay the lowest common denominator whatever salary they'll take, you're not providing good education. but some people don't care. some people think everything should be "run like a business". since they also believe that businesses are all run so well and clean and efficient. but it's teaching, it's not a business. compare our teacher compensation to some other countries that are taking the baton from us on innovation and education, and our teachers are grossly underpaid. some say we lose the possibility of getting the best college students to go into teaching because it doesn't pay enough. yet here we are, arguing with folks that think they are overpaid and that it should go to anyone who'd take less money instead....
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Old 02-21-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
17,409 posts, read 13,636,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
it's pointless to go back and forth. it doesn't really matter what happens in the private sector. teachers are teachers.
exactly, nobody cares about your bank manager. but like brady just demonstrated, people will irrationally stand up for teachers and their right to squeeze every penny from working taxpayers.

brady, you mentioned comparing teacher's compensation here in america vs other places. if you have a link for that i would be interested in checking out those comparisons.
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