With South Jersey showing impressive growth rates, will NJ politicians start paying more attention to South Jersey? (Camden: tax, live)

[Nexis4Jersey]

Originally Posted by qjbusmaster

fool all modes of transit help each other look at mercer the only thing missing is the west trenton line. Trains run fast then buses complete the trip ftom rail to final destination!!!! SJ does lack TOD but that lack is hurting transit in SJ. Try the 402 that is an example of failure to see ppl's needs and bad marketing just ask anyone in SJ about the transit they will give blank faces due to horrid marketing unlike northeast jersey. Northwest is much worse than SJ where you HAVE TO DRIVE!!!!!!

All the Future plans in this state by train drop ppl off in the CBD's of towns...and near large employment centers. TOD can only work will Rail Transit , not with Buses...

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

Meh , please do not stick me in the same category as this Bus lover..... I'm a Rail Fanner which a more respected Transportation Rank...

SJ needs to get serious with TOD , it seems to lag compared to Central and North.... Once the Pennsuaken Transit Center opens late next year , hopefully RiverLine towns will see things pick up

Funniest line of the week, hands down!!!

[tahiti]

Originally Posted by southbound_295

<snip>

I was working 2nd shift at one point & had car trouble. The last bus that I could take ran at 10pm on Rt 70. If my boss decided not to let me out early to get that bus, I got to walk 3 miles along Rt 70, at least half of which has no sidewalk. (& this was in Cherry Hill) Do not tell me that TNJ service in South Jersey is anything other than crappy. South Jersey taxes helped build the rail & bus system in North Jersey & got nothing until people tried to seceed & form a separate state.

Just a note: North Jersey is not a monolith. Carry on.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by tahiti

Just a note: North Jersey is not a monolith. Carry on.

I know tahiti, but you know & I know what the state investment in transportation is in the north. While that was being built up, the only public transportation in South Jersey was the Red Arrow busses out of PA. When the PATCO line was built, it was not TNJ building it, it the Port Authority, because of federal grant money. It was immediately successful when it opened in 1969. I know, because I used it to commute for college.

When PATCO opened, successfully, the Port Authority (DRPA) drew up several plans which included a Burlington County extension & a Gloucester County extension (not identical to the Riverline or the currently proposed Glassboro extension) & even floated a plan for a bridge across the Delaware that would have been exclusively for train. The 3 lines were capable of being expanded This would have needed state cooperation & TNJ wanted nothing to do with it, so it just died.

TNJ never put a bus wheel in South Jersey until after Red Arrow withdrew. Even in Camden County the TNJ busses are not really functional for day to day life.

The total lack of state involvement in South Jersey, for public transportation, & the road situation (The 295/42 merge being at the top of the list.) were 2 things that led to a seething anger that resulted in the attempt by the southern counties to seceed. The state pulled it from the ballots when they realized that this was going to pass. There is still anger, to this day, about that & people are still very sensitive about this. Most posters on here, in the north, are clueless about a reason for the anger, but it isn't baseless.

LOL, when interstate traffic dictated a need for new bridges to cross the Delaware, & the Port Authoity built the Commodore Barry & Betsy Ross, the state of NJ was not exactly fast to build the connector roads to connect the bridges to the existing roads. The Betsy Ross sat, unuseable, for quite a while.

[jknic]

Originally Posted by qjbusmaster

I pity the fool who drives slower than the 551!!!!! ha ha ha south jersey in general has bad service but atlantic and camden counties are exceptions. In atlantic the weak link is rte 50 and the black hourse pike west of mays landing!!!! in camden its the weak weekend service but it's easier than ya thing I tried it I tried atlantic county it's very posible to use the transit that exists somewhat but if you need to go north and south you are better off driving in atlantic the other counties are well north-south only being craptastic camden millville line is needed and the 408 should be modified to avoid duplicating it!!!

I live next to Buena, which has no bus service, the only parts of Atlantic County with bus service are the areas by A.C. and along the Atlantic City Line. People don't want to use the bus, because it's slow, inefficient, and rarely goes close enough to where we want to go. Transit should deliver one within about 1 mile (about a 10 minuet walk) from one's destination, the problem is most destinations are not within this range, namely because unlike most train stations there's no parking at the bus stops. Also, for every transfer you lose about 50% of ridership, and since if I'm trying to go from Vineland to Hammonton, I have to transfer and take a bus for 4 hours for what takes a half an hour to drive.

[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by jknic

I live next to Buena, which has no bus service, the only parts of Atlantic County with bus service are the areas by A.C. and along the Atlantic City Line. People don't want to use the bus, because it's slow, inefficient, and rarely goes close enough to where we want to go. Transit should deliver one within about 1 mile (about a 10 minuet walk) from one's destination, the problem is most destinations are not within this range, namely because unlike most train stations there's no parking at the bus stops. Also, for every transfer you lose about 50% of ridership, and since if I'm trying to go from Vineland to Hammonton, I have to transfer and take a bus for 4 hours for what takes a half an hour to drive.

actually buena itself has no service but you are near a line called 553 which is on rte 40. I actually already outlined that weakness in THE BUS NETWORK YOU REPEATED WHAT I SAID ABOUT THE LACK OF CROSSTOWN SERVICE. YOUR TRAVEL PATTERN IS A CROSS-TOWN PATTERN!!!!! SJ HAS NO CROSSTOWN SERVICE IN ATLANTIC COUNTY PLUS I SAID RTE 30 AND 322 EAST OF MAYS LANDING AND RTE 9 HAVE 24/7 SERVICE. Vineland and hammonton is a north-south travel pattern you are right that it doesn't go everywhere but slow it is not the 554 however is slow cause it uses white horse pike to lindenwood. You repeated what I said in an earlier post. You are right about needing to deliver within 1 mile of one's destination!!!!! But 553 however goes to vineland from landis ave it runs every 30 mins 24/7. It then goes to AC via rte 40 and ACE buses are slow for CROSSTOWN TRAVEL DUE TO LACK OF DIRECT SERVICE. HOWEVER BEFORE 6PM THERE IS A DIAL-A-BUS THAT WILL TAKE U FROM BUENA TO HAMMONTON!!!!! call 609-645-5910 reservations are accepted between 1 and 4PM. That is the shortcut!!!! but you will have to use the 553 first as that is how you get into atlantic as this dial a ride won't leave the county. If you time it right it can be done in less than 4 hours but this should be done with fixed rte not dial a bus and anyone can use it!!! And 551 you can't reach cause it bypasses ur town.[SIZE=4][SIZE=4][SIZE=4]
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[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by tahiti

Just a note: North Jersey is not a monolith. Carry on.

actually the last bus to berlin from cherry hill on rte 70 is 11:19 PM the kings hwy intersection. And to philly it's 12:07 AM well now at least I think they added trips since then that bus u mentioned is it 406 ??? that is the only bus on rte 70 corridor actually and on saturdays an extra eastbound trip at 12:43 AM also to berlin!!! Like I said the WORST PART ABOUT NJT BUSES IS LACK OF GRID STLYE RTEING MEANING NO CROSSTOWNS PLUS BURLINGTON IS BAD THAT I KNOW!!!!! But they aren't 315/313 BAD look at their schedules you can use a good laugh they aren't enough rush hour buses on 406!!!!!! I learned first hand when in traffic on rte 70 THE NJT406 is in fact one of the SlOW LINES BUT IT GOES DOWN RTE 70 TO RTE 73 THEN BERLIN.

[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by tahiti

Funniest line of the week, hands down!!!

YUP AND MOST IGNORANT LINE TOO HOW SAD I DON'T ARGUE WITH ONE-SIDED PPL!!!! NEXIS DOESN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT I SAID EARLIER LET ME MAKE IT SIMPLE I NEVER SAID BUSES MAKE TOD I SAID BUSES COMPLEMENT RAIL!!!!! ALL I SAID WAS RAIL BRINGS TOWN CENTERS TOGETHER THEN BUSES GET YOU TO THE OUTER STRETCHES TO REDUCE ROAD TRAFFIC I NEVER SAID BUSES ALONE CAN DO IT!!!!! DON'T UNDERESTIMATE MY INTELLIGENCE ITS INSULTING!!! Look at the rail pass it lets you use all NJT train lines and light rails and BUSES UP TO THE NUMBER OF ZONES ON THE PASS AT NO EXTRA COST OTHER THAN THE RAIL PASS PRICE!!!!! Buses keep travel costs down beacause if you live by one you can take one to the train and with the rail pass you don't pay extra to use the NJT bus. Trains are important but so is everything else!!!

[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by Nexis4Jersey

All the Future plans in this state by train drop ppl off in the CBD's of towns...and near large employment centers. TOD can only work will Rail Transit , not with Buses...

I know that I am not stupid I never said buses alone!!!!! buses work with Trains I don't favor a single mode of transit all modes help each other !!!! buses are only for getting ppl home from train stations and areas where trains don't run. Trains only get you to CBD of towns and employment centers but rarely infront of ppls homes or deep in neighborhoods. TOD like in trenton worked with a balanced system of TRAINS AND BUSES!!!!!! NOT TRAINS ALONE OR BUSES ALONE IT'S THAT SAME MENTALITY THAT MAKES LOS ANGELES THE SMOGIEST CITY IN THE NATION CAUSE THEY ARE FOR BUSES ONLY AND RAIL ONLY HAS A SIMILAR LESS SEVERE EFFECT!!!!! check the NJT 600 series for what I really mean. while ur at it check essex county and hudson county that is how transit should be balanced buses feeding from stores and neighborhoods to vibrant CBDs to either mingle or catch the TRAIN I WAS NEVER AGAINST TRAIN IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!! BUT WITH MY KNOWLEDGE OF THE BUS NETWORK'S WEAKNESS AND STRENGTHS YOU GOT THE WRONG IDEA ABOUT ME.

[qjbusmaster]

Originally Posted by NJGOAT

Like was said earlier you can look at it two ways, is demand generated by the existence of the system or does unmet demand lead to the creation of the system?

Not to belabor and continue to argue the point, but no one in South Jersey uses public transit outside of PATCO and the Riverline, because for the most part you can't get public transit to take you where you want to go and even when it is available, it is generally just as easy and cost effective to drive there. After all, we all pretty much own cars as a necessity around here.

That basically leaves busses to be ridden only by the poor, hence the stigma. Also, considering every bus line we have terminates in one place, the Walter Rand Center in Camden, it can certainly be an adventure riding the bus and pretty much everyone avoids if at all possible.

EXCEPT CAMDEN CROSSTOWNS LIKE 459 AND 455 AND 463 and the 500 series except 551 which is the only 500 series line to philly