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Old 03-22-2011, 11:50 AM
 
501 posts, read 1,193,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77 View Post
There are no charter Catholic schools.

I know that. But when you start building schools exclusively for one religion there will be people from another demanding the same thing.
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Old 03-22-2011, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
21,466 posts, read 27,194,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
the argument is that if they cover the curriculum, anything they do beyond that is their choice.
that sounds fair enough to me. people like to refer to it as "public money" as if now the government's and other people's say is more important than the user. well, i pay for the schools so i pay enough that i should have the right to make choices if they become available to me and i dont feel its "public money" its my money. i paid it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:24 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,150,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
that sounds fair enough to me. people like to refer to it as "public money" as if now the government's and other people's say is more important than the user. well, i pay for the schools so i pay enough that i should have the right to make choices if they become available to me and i dont feel its "public money" its my money. i paid it.
"the government" is the people. it's still the people's money. i think the state should dictate a baseline curriculum (which i believe that's how it is done) and then the local school board, elected by the people, can add to that curriculum. so...maybe the state requires "math" be taught in 9th grade, but the local school board can also offer "AP Math" if it chooses to.

same thing with languages. might not be required by the state, but the locality should be able to add it if it wants to.

and i know it crosses a line in many people's eyes, but if a locality wants to add "religious studies", i'm ok with that...but i would hope it would cover all religions, not a particular one. but then...there are a crapload of religions out there!!!
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
21,466 posts, read 27,194,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
"the government" is the people.
the government isnt the people, the government is a parasite. if a person pays 10k a year in property taxes then i appreciate that they are able to have a choice of schools and consider it as their tuition. thats not ideal, but id rather see it as that taxpayer's money than "the people's money."

Last edited by CaptainNJ; 03-22-2011 at 01:44 PM..
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Old 03-22-2011, 01:44 PM
 
Location: West Orange, NJ
12,542 posts, read 17,150,943 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainNJ View Post
the government isnt the people, the government is a parasite.
then so are the people. since the people elect the government. by the people, for the people. people just don't like to take responsibility when they made stupid choices...so they call it "the government".
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Old 03-22-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Holmdel, NJ
21,466 posts, read 27,194,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradykp View Post
then so are the people. since the people elect the government. by the people, for the people. people just don't like to take responsibility when they made stupid choices...so they call it "the government".
i dont think thats accurate. the government works well enough that people who have more important things to do with their lives dont pay attention. politicians know very well their job is to sell their votes and trick the people into believing they are doing otherwise. its a delicate little balance that is hard to change. its another one of those things that you will need a disaster in order to get people involved enough to change.

you have a job and a family. you want a candidate to end corruption but if no candidate is running that will do that (which none do) then you are going to pick the better choice.
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Ashburn, VA
466 posts, read 1,223,635 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann77 View Post
I proposed a public charter school somewhere on this thread that might appeal to Catholics.

It would be a "Latin Immersion" school. You know, because Latin is such an important language for international business. Oh yeah, it's also the official language of Catholicism but don't mind that. And then the school will also focus on the history of Western Civilization, including the history of the Catholic Church. This is all just historical studies, not religious. And then after school, we will have "religion clubs" where we can just meet to talk about the Catechism.

But everyone is welcome to come! Do you think we'd get a lot of Jewish or Muslim or agnostic families?
Hmm. My family is Jewish and Latin is my daughter's favorite class, by a large margin. I think a Latin/Western Civ immersion school would be sought after by those trying to boost their kid's Verbal SAT scores
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Old 03-22-2011, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Ashburn, VA
466 posts, read 1,223,635 times
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To throw gasoline on the fire:

{Following the introduction of dual-language immersion programs in a growing number of public schools around the country, New Jersey is opening its first public school with dual-language immersion in Chinese and English in September, 2011. The Princeton International Academy Charter School (PIACS) was approved by the New Jersey Department of Education in January, 2010 and will be the third public school in New Jersey offering dual-language immersion. In September 2010, a Spanish/English immersion school opened in Hoboken and a Hebrew/English immersion school opened in East Brunswick.}

I'm a bit confused as to why a Hebrew language school would be different from a Chinese or Spanish language school, from a legal perspective. (Obviously, teaching religion would be banned.)

That being said - charter schools were designed to fix messed up public schools, but are being used to create trendy immersion programs. However, you can't approve of a Chinese immersion school that mainly supports Chinese-Americans but disapprove of a Hebrew immersion school that appeals to Jews. This is what we call "hypocrisy" and is generally considered to be bad.

The safest way to handle this is to ban language immersion charter schools which are perversions of the charter school movement to begin with. If we want to provide vouchers for parochial schools (which I personally approve of), then we should. Otherwise, lets keep charter schools focused on their mission.
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Old 03-22-2011, 07:43 PM
 
3,986 posts, read 5,495,864 times
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Ann brought this up before. But what would stop Asian Indians and Chinese from setting up langauge charter schools in one town like East Brunswick - and trust me there are plenty of each in E.B. - and totally mucking up the fine public schools in town? You open "language" schools for Hebrew, then we're going to have 10 different other ones competing for students and basically ruining the diversity of the schools.

I find the whole charter school concept repugnant except perhaps for specialized charters like technology. Even then I'm not so sold on charters. They discipline kids better in inner cities, that to me is their major advantage. In the 'burbs they're essentially not worth it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:55 PM
 
3,081 posts, read 2,631,836 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBWick View Post
Ann brought this up before. But what would stop Asian Indians and Chinese from setting up langauge charter schools in one town like East Brunswick - and trust me there are plenty of each in E.B. - and totally mucking up the fine public schools in town? You open "language" schools for Hebrew, then we're going to have 10 different other ones competing for students and basically ruining the diversity of the schools.

I find the whole charter school concept repugnant except perhaps for specialized charters like technology. Even then I'm not so sold on charters. They discipline kids better in inner cities, that to me is their major advantage. In the 'burbs they're essentially not worth it.
While I'll be the first to agree that the charter in E.B. is silly because they could just offer the language in the school itself to the same effect, and a charter does involve some duplication of administrative expense, but, how would a single charter, or even an unlikely proliferation of charters, "totally muck up" the public schools?

Unnecessary and a bit wasteful in good school districts is bad, but not full-on "repugnant," and overzealous establishment in areas where they don't really belong (like east Brunswick) is not sufficient reason to condemn the concept where the public schools aren't good.
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