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we're speaking of two different things i think. sounds like you're speaking about unmotivated kids. i'm talking about the unmotivated parents. maybe it's hand-in-hand, but i think we should be identifying kids who need the help, and help them.
you're helping the parents with charter schools, not the kids. you aren't fixing the education that the kids are getting, in my opinion at least.
i would certainly take a page from virtually every private school and implement a school uniform at every school in the state. it's a step towards changing the culture in a school, and eliminating at least 1 distraction from the day.
You're helping the kids with some charter schools. I like to think of it as helping families, since neither kids nor parents exist in their own bubbles, for better or for worse.
You're helping the kids with some charter schools. I like to think of it as helping families, since neither kids nor parents exist in their own bubbles, for better or for worse.
you're not really helping the kids who need the most help.
So you are 100% against charter schools for anyone? Ok.
charter schools as they currently operate. yeah. because they don't fix anything. it's a bandaid on a larger problem.
if the charter schools were established and randomly pulled kids out of the current school, and showed improvements on the student performance then i'd say full steam ahead.
All the talk about charters offering a better education? Not true. I remember 5th & 6th grade math being wasted time. I learned 5th grade made in 4th grade. Sixth grade math could probably have been condensed to three months. Eighth grade math was a disaster - eight lecture hours a week with six of those geared solely towards GEPA prep - aka PASSING STANDARDIZED TESTS AND LEARNING NOTHING VALUABLE JUST SO CHARTERS STAY OPENED!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yulga
so, the middle school math program at the public school you left to go to this chapter was so much better I guess... or probably not? ))
Yes, my public K-8 school offered a math program superior to my charter middle school's program.
As I said before - charter schools are terrible for very intelligent students and just OK for mediocre ones. These schools are basically all about passing standardized tests to remain funded/open, so they tend only to touch upon the surface of certain subjects, etc.
Good questions...But there were a few innacuracies in your statements.
Here is the NJ charter school law for review.
[url=http://www.state.nj.us/education/chartsch/cspa95.htm]Charter School Program Act of 1995, N.J.S.A. 18A:36A[/url]
and here is the NJEA teacher's union official position which supports the law
[url=http://www.newjerseynewsroom.com/commentary/njea-supports-high-quality-public-charter-schools]NJEA supports high-quality public charter schools | Commentary | NewJerseyNewsroom.com -- Your State. Your News.[/url]
Charter schools are not meant to replace failing schools, but help all schools (urban and suburban) continue to improve by replicating in our districts those programs which have proven successful in other public schools around the country. If they prove successful in a charter school environment and are in significant demand by the public (based on enrollment and waiting lists), the school districts can take what is working and expand its offering in the rest of the district. Charters are an extension of the public system.
Yes, my public K-8 school offered a math program superior to my charter middle school's program.
As I said before - charter schools are terrible for very intelligent students and just OK for mediocre ones. These schools are basically all about passing standardized tests to remain funded/open, so they tend only to touch upon the surface of certain subjects, etc.
really so? at this point, we need the specifics to argue your case further, but on the general claim of charter schools being terrible for very intelligent students, let's discuss this one, for example - Bergen Arts and Science Charter School (http://www.bergencharter.org/default.asp - broken link)
would you say its curriculum is worse than that one of, let's say, Millburn, Glen Ridge, whatever? I don't know much about middle school since my children are not there yet, but I suppose you've been through public elementary and can compare what you'd been taught to what they offer...
I also suggest to check out the clubs for kids and compare to what you have in even well performing public school at elementary level...
I can claim that public districts fund all this activities on HS levels to attract home buyers... maybe, we can find some public districts decent enough to do something on MS level, but elementary enrichment and differentiation are missing...
so, here is my take on charter schools - I want a charter school for the top 2% on the elementary level, where I'd be eager to sent my child... the public school don't have anything to offer to Top 2% and they use them heavily to prop their scores and claim school's efficiency... remove top 2% and will see on what level these top districts really perform...there are no magnet schools on elementary level in NJ, and most of the private schools offer the same curriculum as public school... so, a charter school is the only bet...
Yeah, the direct effect is helping the kids who have parents who want them to learn, not directly targeting kids who want to, but, for younger students, I can't think of any way to directly target the motivated ones, and targeting the kids of motivated parents seems the best indirect way to get the highest proportion of motivated kids.
The problem is that the ones who aren't motivated can't be helped. No attention; no learning. In addition to being personally hopeless, they create a terrible learning environment for those that DO want to learn. Getting the kids who treat school as primarily a place to learn away from those who treat it as primarily a place to socialize is perhaps the most important thing charters do to improve the chances of motivated kids who want to learn but were dealt a bad hand by life.
So yes, it does leave some behind, but, it is the best way to save the ones who can be saved in the first place.
oh, I agree 100% here
we have this relatively recent innovation - No Child Left Behind - it basically reduce the achievement standards to the level of the lower 30%, leaving the 30% from the other side completely clueless of what they do at school... just socializing and being praised that they do very well at school while you don't do anything at all?
while deceiving the low 30% of the children on where they REALLY stand in terms of their education levels, we are raising the top 30% as underachievers... this is what "No Child Left Behind" actually did - it produced the generation of underachievers, and the results for this country are yet to be seen...
all current policies are out producing this "feel good" ingredient, that is selling well to those segments that vote in elections - but this educational bubble is about to burst just as well as the RE one...
really so? at this point, we need the specifics to argue your case further, but on the general claim of charter schools being terrible for very intelligent students, let's discuss this one, for example - Bergen Arts and Science Charter School (http://www.bergencharter.org/default.asp - broken link)
would you say its curriculum is worse than that one of, let's say, Millburn, Glen Ridge, whatever? I don't know much about middle school since my children are not there yet, but I suppose you've been through public elementary and can compare what you'd been taught to what they offer...
I also suggest to check out the clubs for kids and compare to what you have in even well performing public school at elementary level...
I can claim that public districts fund all this activities on HS levels to attract home buyers... maybe, we can find some public districts decent enough to do something on MS level, but elementary enrichment and differentiation are missing...
so, here is my take on charter schools - I want a charter school for the top 2% on the elementary level, where I'd be eager to sent my child... the public school don't have anything to offer to Top 2% and they use them heavily to prop their scores and claim school's efficiency... remove top 2% and will see on what level these top districts really perform...there are no magnet schools on elementary level in NJ, and most of the private schools offer the same curriculum as public school... so, a charter school is the only bet...
1) In literature, why are two months spent on one book at a time?
2) In math, why are three weeks spent reviewing things like "Adding and Subtracting Decimals" or "Adding and Subtracting
Fractions?"
I'm sure I could find many more questionable things, but I've other things to do.
The very virtue of a charter school is that it cannot (legally) be selective. Technically, there can never be a charter school catering solely to the Top 2% of public school students - unless, I guess, a school is placed in a district with massive high-performing student-bodies, like Millburn, etc. That niche is created/filled by magnet schools. Magnet elementary schools exist, albeit probably very rare - my cousin went to one (in Connecticut.)
I can't speak to private elementary schools but differentiation between private and public/charter middle schools is huge.
1) In literature, why are two months spent on one book at a time?
2) In math, why are three weeks spent reviewing things like "Adding and Subtracting Decimals" or "Adding and Subtracting
Fractions?"
my son's current G&T enrichment program offers a course where they spent two months on ONE book - "Charlotte's Web" - it's called "Socrates Book Club", where they teach kids to read, analyze, and discuss classics through Socrates method... it maybe along these lines, you can't judge without the specifics...
in Pre-K at public school my son's class spent three to four months on one subject "Penguins", which they explored from any possible perspective... they went through classification, life cycle, diet, habitat, Latin terms... did tons of hand-ons and activities around the topic, were taught to create a small presentation on the subject, write a paragraph, and finally present one by one before the parents... if they do the same even half way with decimals and franctions (let's say, applying them to the real life endless problems) I'd be happy for those kids...
that was written to justify the length of some topics... as for drilling to get kids ready for the tests, you're mistaken to think that public schools don't spend a lot of time doing it... our elementary does to prepare kids for ASK, since their funding also depends on the results I guess...
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